Park Life 70 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Good article by Robert Fisk in the Indi http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-in-a-borderless-world-the-days-when-we-could-fight-foreign-wars-and-be-safe-at-home-may-be-long-a6741146.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9010 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 That simply cannot be seen as the root cause of Islamist suicide bombings in Paris, whichever way you look at it. Plenty of people oppose the creation of Israel and Israeli settlement expansion without feeling the need to detonate themselves in a public space. Plenty of people don't like what the Conservative government has done, without feeling the need to vote Labour. Get the right demagogue, spouting the right venom, about the right topic, at the right time, at the right young men and that's all she wrote. Surely that's why there's only a handful of these shitbubbles, instead of a billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Could we not threaten ISIS with a chemical weapon that would give them makem accents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19838 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3472 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Here's a little study: "What is the driving force behind jihadist terrorism? – A scientific perspective on the causes/circumstances of joining the scene" https://life.eui.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/OLIVIER-ROY-what-is-a-radical-islamist.pdf Also, I keep saying this. The reason for mentioning other conflicts and western involvement in the middle east etc is not just because there has to be some direct link to Paris, but more the general attitude of some including a lot of the mainstream media in being so nonchalant about tens of thousands of civilian deaths in these cases. The hypocrisy and double standards are staggering in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I tracked down the original paper, by Kelley et al. (2015). It's not science as I understand it. Bizarre that any scientist would put their name to this in fact, it nearly all supposition using the testimony of a Syrian farmer to justify the link. Bizarre stuff. Naomi Klein making the same case and referring to John Kerry's statement that such an opinion is uncontroversial... http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2015/11/why-climate-deal-best-hope-peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17825 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Naomi Klein making the same case and referring to John Kerry's statement that such an opinion is uncontroversial... http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2015/11/why-climate-deal-best-hope-peace Oh well, if someone says it's uncontroversial then of course it is. The paper referred to is not hard science. I don't know if this is what passes for acceptable social science even, I hope not. There's no statistical associations shown in the paper and even if there were I'm sure you're aware association is not equivalent to causation. I mean, how many times have there been droughts (and we're assuming these are caused by climate change) that occurred without a brutal civil war occurring afterwards? Or for that matter civil wars without preceding droughts? Howay HF, you're better than this politically motivated pseudoscience bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I've got no idea. I just found it strange to wake up to everyone laughing at Charles like he made up some crackpot theory when he's repeating old news that the likes of Obama's also been touting.... http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/20/obama-climate-change-fueled-rise-of-boko-haram-war-in-syria/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17825 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 "Obama explained that the United States armed forces would now have to factor in climate change in upcoming missions". If this is correctly quoted its pretty mental. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to these forthcoming Delta Force briefings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2431 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Personally I think we should use the drones, fitted with loud speakers and play cheesy one hit wonders at them until they give in. Finally, a course of action we can all agree upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Frankie Boyle on this particular debate: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/23/frankie-boyle-fallout-paris-psychopathic-autopilot He's kind of sat across the fence of the whole thing as it has turned out on here, save for the point where he rightly concludes that bombing ISIS will offer absolutely no solution whatsoever, and only education and better opportunity can stop the rise of radical Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think the worry is that we're seeing drought on a scale not seen before due to climate change. So you can't look at earlier events to make a comparison. Syria might have coped with a 1 year drought in the past, or 2 or 3 but it went on for 4 years. It's inarguable that this will lead to mass migration. Think its an interesting question how this will impact the situation in already volatile countries, especially those where extremists feed off poverty to radicalise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2431 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm just impressed you managed to find an article attributing the statements to Obama which you previously claimed he made. This must be a big moment for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17825 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Frankie Boyle on this particular debate: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/23/frankie-boyle-fallout-paris-psychopathic-autopilot He's kind of sat across the fence of the whole thing as it has turned out on here, save for the point where he rightly concludes that bombing ISIS will offer absolutely no solution whatsoever, and only education and better opportunity can stop the rise of radical Islam. Education and better opportunity? There's been medical students from the UK travelling to Syria to join IS. Remember the Glasgow airport attack? One of the perpetrators was a doctor and the other an engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2431 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Time to pack up and move to Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2431 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Education and better opportunity? There's been medical students from the UK travelling to Syria to join IS. Remember the Glasgow airport attack? One of the perpetrators was a doctor and the other an engineer. That's the draught too, presumably. Or the job market. Anything but religion in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think it was directed more at the farmers and such who actually make up ISIS as a core group. There's always going to be disaffected loonies, but you can minimise it by investing in more widespread education. If they were blowing themselves up because their religion told them to, why aren't the other billion Muslims doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17825 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think the worry is that we're seeing drought on a scale not seen before due to climate change. So you can't look at earlier events to make a comparison. Syria might have coped with a 1 year drought in the past, or 2 or 3 but it went on for 4 years. It's inarguable that this will lead to mass migration. Think its an interesting question how this will impact the situation in already volatile countries, especially those where extremists feed off poverty to radicalise. I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously recently. Are you being serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I know white house policy is often questionable but I think you're being very disrespectful of the big O here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Time to pack up and move to Rio. God! Don't tempt me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 That's the draught too, presumably. Or the job market. Anything but religion in any case. No, religion is a massive factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17825 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think it was directed more at the farmers and such who actually make up ISIS as a core group. There's always going to be disaffected loonies, but you can minimise it by investing in more widespread education. If they were blowing themselves up because their religion told them to, why aren't the other billion Muslims doing it? Because all Muslims aren't blowing themselves up, it can't be the religion that's the problem? This is a logical argument? Whose going to invest and implement this education scheme any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17825 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Terrible droughts in California at the moment too, it's going to kick off big style there soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Because all Muslims aren't blowing themselves up, it can't be the religion that's the problem? This is a logical argument? Whose going to invest and implement this education scheme any way? It'd be a better use for the money we're about to waste blowing them up. And as for the first point, I'm just curious really as to why all Muslims aren't blowing themselves up. I wonder why this particular group were more susceptible to radicalisation... if it was simply the persuasive power of Islam, surely everyone would be doing it. Clearly there are other factors at play, and therefore, there are other factors that can be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 What's this shit about global warming? Hey! Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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