ewerk 34173 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 54 minutes ago, Craig said: And whilst you state the evidence isn't there to support the idea that men are doing it to get better access to women in vulnerable situations, there doesn't need to be - the loophole is there to exploit which is why I understand the argument around self-identity and statuatory declaration alone. Do we have to wait until someone exploits that loophole before something is done about it? Prevention is far better than cure. I'm sorry but there does need to be evidence. You can't deny swathes of people to live their lives freely on the basis of 'what if'. Should we ban gay men from public toilets and changing facilities in case one of them assaults me? This is a reasonably new issue in the UK but there has to be evidence from other countries that have more established self-identity rights that show whether or not your fear is founded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 52375 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 I can totally understand women fearing the idea of this being used by creepy rapists etc. And you can say it's irrational based on the evidence, I'm sure it is, but then fear is irrational. And it's not like women have nothing to fear from creepy blokes. I keep out of it cos it's not really my place to say how any sides in this argument should be feeling. I do wish, in the most shitty, simplistic way imaginable that everyone could just get to be who they want to be without people being a cunt about it. It's why I still think the likes of Rowling are fucking reprehensible cos that was just a very famous woman with a massive platform who at times seemed to genuinely be enjoying punching down and instigating pile-ons. I think she's a nasty piece of work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 7326 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 8 minutes ago, ewerk said: I'm sorry but there does need to be evidence. You can't deny swathes of people to live their lives freely on the basis of 'what if'. Should we ban gay men from public toilets and changing facilities in case one of them assaults me? This is a reasonably new issue in the UK but there has to be evidence from other countries that have more established self-identity rights that show whether or not your fear is founded. That's your opinion. Others disagree and I see their point of view. This subject is an absolute can of worms which those who pedal a polar view, attempt to simplify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 7326 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 2 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I can totally understand women fearing the idea of this being used by creepy rapists etc. And you can say it's irrational based on the evidence, I'm sure it is, but then fear is irrational. And it's not like women have nothing to fear from creepy blokes. I keep out of it cos it's not really my place to say how any sides in this argument should be feeling. I do wish, in the most shitty, simplistic way imaginable that everyone could just get to be who they want to be without people being a cunt about it. It's why I still think the likes of Rowling are fucking reprehensible cos that was just a very famous woman with a massive platform who at times seemed to genuinely be enjoying punching down and instigating pile-ons. I think she's a nasty piece of work. Totally agree with all of this. Hugely emotive subject which many close to the coal-face either can't, or refuse to see the alternative view point. I got asked by my other half what my sister does when it comes to public toilets. I actually don't know, but I assume she uses, where possible, gender-neutral disabled facilities. I do know she believes strongly that there should be the option for gender-neutral toilet facilties which people of both genders are permitted to use, but even then where does it stop? Male toilets for born-males only Male toilets for transitioned men Gender-neutral toilets for all to use Female toilets for born-females only Female toilets for transitioned women Where does the freedom of choice end? Perhaps the only answer is to phase out communal toilet facilities and move solely to self-contained cubicles. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 52375 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 12 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I can totally understand women fearing the idea of this being used by creepy rapists etc. And you can say it's irrational based on the evidence, I'm sure it is, but then fear is irrational. And it's not like women have nothing to fear from creepy blokes. I keep out of it cos it's not really my place to say how any sides in this argument should be feeling. I do wish, in the most shitty, simplistic way imaginable that everyone could just get to be who they want to be without people being a cunt about it. It's why I still think the likes of Rowling are fucking reprehensible cos that was just a very famous woman with a massive platform who at times seemed to genuinely be enjoying punching down and instigating pile-ons. I think she's a nasty piece of work. To be clear, I'm not calling trans women "creepy blokes". Or suggesting they're rapists. I'm just saying that fear is irrational and women have been given ample reason to fear. As, by the way, have trans people. I'm sure there are other people, some of them women, a lot of them blokes, for whom this is just another battle to win. Like not wearing masks during covid, etc. And they can fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 34173 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Craig said: That's your opinion. Others disagree and I see their point of view. When you stop making policy based on evidence and start making it on unfounded fears then that's a bad road to go down. My opinion is that trans people are marginalised enough without making it government policy. Edited April 17 by ewerk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6436 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 The french have shared toilets anyway if I'm right? And I think they do rely on the cubicle thing, very firmly sealed doors etc. It does rather beg the question how often women are being assaulted in public toilets at all, by anyone - if it was a big problem, you'd think they would have ended it. https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/trans-self-id-since-2015-and-no-horror-stories-vzzfx6fvs This article references that Ireland has permitted people to self identify on bathrooms since 2015, and to date there have been precisely zero accounts of any attacks. We can't let fear dictate policy, that's what the right wing attempt to do with everything in their political landscape, and we would call it out in all other senses. If the evidence is there, it would be really easy to make a decision on this, but fear itself isn't enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 4483 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 I've also got skin in this game and like Craig I feel there is much more nuance to this whole issue than both sides will allow you to think. It is the people desperate to claim victory rather than those who want to genuinely protect whichever sides rights that have the loudest voices and are driving the hatred The only thing I am certain of us the right wing ruling class have successfully turned it into an issue that has the oppressed fighting each other rather than directing their energy where it should go 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 12612 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 I think the whole thing has been made more of an issue than it probably should have been based on lies peddled by utter cunts to stoke fear. The narrative seems to be pushed that trans women in particular are universally dangerous to biological women which is obviously not the case. Abusers are abusers - they are (somewhat ironically) gender-neutral crimes. This whole issue is the new Muslim grooming gang for me - like aye, there are trans people who are absolute monsters, but it's irrefutable fact that there are more monsters who are not trans. You can replace "trans" with just about anything else and it's the same - same as changing Muslim for anything else. It's just depends on which imaginary monster in the sky the idiots in government and the media want to point to this week. I wouldn't be surprised if the statistics show that more trans people are victims of violent crime from biological women than the opposite, despite what we're being told. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 24454 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said: Cunts will be cunts, innit. Not always it seems, that's the debate. I think this stuff should be kept well away from politics and remain a judicial issue. Politics should be 80% about economics, 15% about spending, 5% about foreign policy, and 0% about social justice wedge issues imo. Edited April 17 by Renton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 46377 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 6 minutes ago, Renton said: wedge issues I believe the word you’re looking for is Does the female form make you uncomfortable, Mr. Renton? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 24454 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 I like to think I am a prick, not a cunt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 12917 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 4 minutes ago, Renton said: I like to think I am a prick, not a cunt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6436 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 JK Rowling celebrates her victory over trans people on her 150m dollar super yacht, in the Bahamas, with champagne and a cigar. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14622149/JK-Rowling-parties-Bahamas-150m-superyacht-Supreme-Court-ruling-transgender-women.html?ico=authors_pagination_mobile Check the picture, she looks like a fucking Bond villain. This is what was wrong with this. Pieces of shit like her. Its not about her opinion or point of view, it's about crushing people to amuse herself and then taunting them with her unimaginable wealth. When we finally do get around to eating the rich, I hope she's one of the first. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 52375 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Yep she's fucking horrible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 24454 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Remember this is the Daily Mail you've linked to, for balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6436 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 She posted the same pic on her twitter feed if that helps. I just refuse to touch that platform. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 34173 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Why put that much effort into trying to destroy a minority who haven’t done anything to harm you. I don’t understand it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 12283 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 If this is the sort of shit she's happy to come out with in public, I dread to think what she says behind closed doors. Fair to say she probably has a few dodgy views on quite a range of issues.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 12917 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6436 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 3 hours ago, Sonatine said: If this is the sort of shit she's happy to come out with in public, I dread to think what she says behind closed doors. Fair to say she probably has a few dodgy views on quite a range of issues.... She actually came out against asexual people recently, as they had their awareness day and I guess she was bored and wanted to lash out at something. You have to wonder how asexual people are threatening women specifically?? I suspect she's now aligned against all LGBTQ. I mean hell she even protested trans people having their identified gender on birth and death certificates. How does that hurt or threaten women? She's full of shit and a bigot, like so many TERFs are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6436 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/apr/20/nigel-farage-defends-allowing-us-chlorinated-chicken-into-uk-as-part-of-trade-deal Because of course he does 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 52375 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Might improve the colour of his fucking teeth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 52375 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 The cunt will still pull his wellies and weeds on and walk through the middle of Central London cos playing as a farmer. And the dozy cunts will happily have him alongside them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 37714 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Gemmill said: The cunt will still pull his wellies and weeds on and walk through the middle of Central London cos playing as a farmer. And the dozy cunts will happily have him alongside them. The wealthy ones for whom it’s all about tax anyway. I’m pretty sure they’re just about the only ones able to afford to protest by driving their tractors around Westminster etc anyway Edited April 20 by Alex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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