Politics

[Rayvin 6592]

I see we're running Rivers of Blood comparisons today. One thing that I'm not following mind, Starmer keeps claiming that the Tories were running an open border experiment - obviously they weren't in reality, but what is he basically pointing to? What specifically did the Tories do which enabled immigration to spiral?

[Alex 38055]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I see we're running Rivers of Blood comparisons today. One thing that I'm not following mind, Starmer keeps claiming that the Tories were running an open border experiment - obviously they weren't in reality, but what is he basically pointing to? What specifically did the Tories do which enabled immigration to spiral?

I think the student visa thing was to allow them to paper over the cracks of the loss of FoM. But it was massively open to abuse with academic institutions being set up that were only pretending to teach students and were just a route into allowing you to live here 

[Rayvin 6592]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

I think the student visa thing was to allow them to paper over the cracks of the loss of FoM. But it was massively open to abuse with academic institutions being set up that were only pretending to teach students and were just a route into allowing you to live here 

 

Ah that makes sense now. But it's interesting this point about papering over the cracks - what does Labour expect is going to be different now, that they'll enact changes quick enough that they can fill the cracks before they need papering over?

[PaddockLad 19895]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I see we're running Rivers of Blood comparisons today. One thing that I'm not following mind, Starmer keeps claiming that the Tories were running an open border experiment - obviously they weren't in reality, but what is he basically pointing to? What specifically did the Tories do which enabled immigration to spiral?

Well they relaxed visa restrictions in 2021, which strangely the point where the transition period for Brexit finished and we were completely out. Not sure if these two things are connected? 😆
 

edit: I say this specifically with the care workers thing in mind 

Edited 5 hours ago by PaddockLad

[Alex 38055]

By ‘them’, I mean the previous government. Also, legitimate academic institutions were incentivised to attract increasing numbers of foreign students. As fees for UK students were frozen for ages (effectively reducing in real terms) whereas they could charge foreign students what they liked. 
There’s other stuff too. You could have prevented a lot of channel crossings in small boats by agreeing to have had a processing centre on the French side (I think the French offered this option). 

Edited 5 hours ago by Alex

[Alex 38055]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Ah that makes sense now. But it's interesting this point about papering over the cracks - what does Labour expect is going to be different now, that they'll enact changes quick enough that they can fill the cracks before they need papering over?

I haven’t got a clue. I was speculating as to what the PM was getting at. Ironically I see closer EU ties by stealth (which I think is what Starmer is going to do) is another ‘cake and eat it’ scenario which would be more popular if it was honest and out in the open. Trying to appeal to (or not annoy) people who still think Brexit is a good thing is bat shit crazy. It’ll be another fudge that pleases almost no one 

[PaddockLad 19895]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

By then, I mean the previous government. Also, legitimate academic institutions were incentivised to attract increasing numbers of foreign students. As fees for UK students were frozen for ages (effectively reducing in real terms) whereas they could charge foreign students what they liked. 
There’s other stuff too. You could have prevented a lot of channel crossings in small boats by agreeing to have had a processing centre on the French side (I think the French offered this option). 

Yeah Tories closed all overseas processing centres and safe routes. They created the boat issue so they looked like they were doing something about an issue which didn’t really exist at the ballot box but after Farage’s constant exploitation of Tory policy we are now here with a Labour PM making speeches that got politicians sacked for making in the late 70s (Powell had to go to one of the Ulster Unionist parties after Heath sacked him so he could remain an MP) 

Edited 5 hours ago by PaddockLad

[wykikitoon 24008]

I've not kept up on the politics for weeks as tbh it's too fucking depressing and I've got too much stuff on.

Anyway a very close pal messages me yesterday to tell me Starmer was going to be announcing we are 'taking back control'  followed by 'He might as well come clean and tell people its Farage running the country'  He's convinced Farage is in charge. 

[Craig 7674]

Well the electorate are in charge, and they made a clear point on 1st May of their feelings. 

The concern I have is Starmer is acting with appeasement in mind. 

[Rayvin 6592]

The media and dirty money is in charge more like. The electorate for the most part doesn't understand any single issue well enough to place an informed vote against it because they only get their information from one side.