Meenzer 17981 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 5 minutes ago, Toonpack said: Only if we can get in past the young mums. My turn to pay as well, fuck !! Very much picturing you as Patti now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 15507 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 11 minutes ago, Renton said: Fucking hell man, you're beyond help. Not really, I just tend to deal with whatever life throws at me and get on with it as best I can, however shit or tough it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 27739 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 6 minutes ago, Toonpack said: Not really, I just tend to deal with whatever life throws at me and get on with it as best I can, however shit or tough it is. I mean, is you're suggestion here that other people don't? Enjoy your triple locked inflation busting pension increase the country can't afford mate 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 26308 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 40 minutes ago, Toonpack said: What winds me up is the impression, on here, that it was all a piece of piss for everyone of my generation, it wasn't, and quality of life is about way more than just ooh you could bring up kids on one wage. ok, boomer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 39128 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 How many on here would swap their current circumstances for growing up in the post-war era? (or whenever TP was young) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 26308 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 3 hours ago, Gemmill said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/27/mansion-tax-richmond-residents-react-council-tax-rise-budget-2025 Tough break for the people of Richmond who live in £2m houses that "aren't mansions". If you can't afford the council tax surcharge, sell your house and be a millionaire instead. i agree with the idea of a mansion tax in principle but london is an outlier. a fairly ordinary victorian terraced house in some areas far less leafy and posh than richmond can go for £2m. there will be some old grannies in areas such as hackney, brixton or clapham, which were once rough, and are still sketchy in places, who have lived there for years and have seen the value of their homes skyrocket since the area gentrified, who may be forced to sell up off the back of this. the people affected aren't necessarily wealthy. many will be struggling. the cost of living here is even insane than it is in the rest of the country. the problem is the housing market needs a correction but too many people don't want that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 17981 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Little bit of equity release, sorted. It's unearned wealth anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 43811 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 I was brought up with my dad the only breadwinner and my mother occasionally had PT jobs. No car, skint, no foreign holidays, (our holidays were going to NI and staying with grandparents via Stranraer/Larne ferry plus bus/train). I can think of a couple of teacher's pets whose parents had money and took them to Portugal for holidays and were fawned upon by this particular teacher whilst everyone else in similar situations to me had to sit and listen to their tales at the request of the teacher. Anyway, I saw one of them the other day, now early fifties, peddling on a bike past the same school, a druggie. I fucking wish I could've been standing alongside the same, middle class snob teacher as the mess rode past us (Most teachers were ok, tbf). Anyway, carry on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 62975 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 5 minutes ago, Meenzer said: Little bit of equity release, sorted. It's unearned wealth anyway. Exactly that. I'm gonna find it very difficult to drum up any sympathy for people that are sitting on a £2m asset, and actually in particular those that bought it for £30k. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 39128 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i agree with the idea of a mansion tax in principle but london is an outlier. a fairly ordinary victorian terraced house in some areas far less leafy and posh than richmond can go for £2m. there will be some old grannies in areas such as hackney, brixton or clapham, which were once rough, and are still sketchy in places, who have lived there for years and have seen the value of their homes skyrocket since the area gentrified, who may be forced to sell up off the back of this. the people affected aren't necessarily wealthy. many will be struggling. the cost of living here is even insane than it is in the rest of the country. the problem is the housing market needs a correction but too many people don't want that to happen. Won't someone think of the grannies in their £2m houses being asked to pay just 0.125% of their house's value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 26308 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 a lot of those people will be asset rich but cash poor and they definitely don't live in mansions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 17981 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: asset rich but cash poor If only there were a way to resolve that situation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 26308 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Meenzer said: If only there were a way to resolve that situation do you think the mansion tax was designed was designed to target that demographic? i dunno. i think the type of homeowner i described would rather see the value of their asset fall than be forced to borrow money or move from any area they will have lived in for years. a long overdue house price correction my occur of the back of this, but i'm not going to hold my breath on that one Edited November 27 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 62975 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 I would walk around the rest of my days dressed as a pearly king if someone snapped their fingers and made my house worth over £2m. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 39128 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 18 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: a lot of those people will be asset rich but cash poor and they definitely don't live in mansions I had a look on Rightmove for houses over £2m in the three areas of London you mentioned and I can assure you that none of them are the type of house lived in by an old granny without a penny to spare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 388 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Toonpack said: I'll be having brunch with my mate later and will be surrounded by the mums and toddlers again I'll be sure to sympathise with them about how tough it is for them. In Monkseaton and Whitley bay? it's very well to do - I've just moved here and its got a very well to do feel with those mums and toddlers and all the "hobby shops". Why not try my old neck of the woods and do the same on Welbeck road? I feel bad about the boomers thing for people in that bracket who legitimately didn't support and vote for Thatcher and 10 years of Tories. I think the problem is (or in my own personal view, the problem is) that it's that generation that are on Social Media all the time talking politics and they always come out with stuff along the lines of: "Tories / Farage are the only people with balls to fix this country - share if you agree" "I'm not paying for people to have children and live in luxury" - share if you agree "Life was hard for us too, kids need to stop eating Avacado" etc etc. Whilst simultaneously forgetting all the enablers that helped , yes times were tough - but it's that generation that have voted in successive governments that enable excessive consumption and cuts cuts cuts. In the 70's we had: Jobs from school at 15 and you could stay with the same employer for life if you wanted (Unions , apprenticeships , Nationalised industries) Free education at all levels Free dentistry and healthcare Regulated banks (this was huge) Child benefit uncapped Social Housing Regulated rental industry (even the rent act 1965, 77) And the Tories call it the politics of envy that we are unhappy with the deregulation and reduction of taxes for the wealthy - since Thatcher The fact is that the generation before COULD survive and bring a family up on 1 persons wage - and these families were BIG 2 children minimum up to 6 or 7 in my parents generation. I know also though that the family didnt have xboxes etc, or even guaranteed meals in some cases. But it was a generation that shared and had community spirit because they had to share - now that that's taken away the generation appear to be arguing that they want the UK to be like the 70's - but without actually being willing to share or go through any hardship themselves. Look at the comments on BBC today about lifting the 2 child cap on UC - they make it sound like we are talking about the equivalent of a salaried wage being given away. It's a support network for the child. But when its something that affects the boomer generation .. wow. (admittedly though, its only them and workshy fops like me that are writing comments on bbc, other than bots and paid peeps) The reality is now, if you are in a working class or retail job it is not even possible to survive with both peoples wages and 2 children without loading debt . And who was it that bought right into consumerism and globalisation , only to blame kids now for being consumerist. We reduced all regulation on advertising, imports, destroyed unions, destroyed 100's of thousands of jobs in traditional industry areas for "cheap imports" - without giving any alternative path? A cause of areas like south hetton are down to stripping away the possibility of work for an entire generation, who already had children without any practical alternative - the tory alternative is to think that everyone has the same opportunity and "just move to work". Edited November 27 by scoobos 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 26308 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 3 minutes ago, ewerk said: I had a look on Rightmove for houses over £2m in the three areas of London you mentioned and I can assure you that none of them are the type of house lived in by an old granny without a penny to spare. you didn't look for long. this was like the third result i found. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/166542140#/?channel=RES_BUY this is what £2m gets you in stoke newington, hackney. it used to be the arse end of east london. the high street there today is a mix of hipster bars and restaurants serving the middle classes plus the usual assortment of vape and charity shops. social cleansing is nothing new in london. most of the cockneys are long gone but it's not exactly a posh neighbourhood. loads of working class people still live there, or would like to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 388 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 14 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: you didn't look for long. this was like the third result i found. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/166542140#/?channel=RES_BUY this is what £2m gets you in stoke newington, hackney. it used to be the arse end of east london. the high street there today is a mix of hipster bars and restaurants serving the middle classes plus the usual assortment of vape and charity shops. social cleansing is nothing new in london. most of the cockneys are long gone but it's not exactly a posh neighbourhood. loads of working class people still live there, or would like to. It's a 6 bedroom 3 bathroom house getting sold to split into rentable flats I bet? but yeh, they could have tiered it for different areas . Everything else has a "in london" adjuster (such as public sector wages, teachers etc) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 27739 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 29 minutes ago, ewerk said: How many on here would swap their current circumstances for growing up in the post-war era? (or whenever TP was young) This is a fallacious direction of discussion. We're not talking about what it was like from a living standard or technology viewpoint in the past, you'd expect that to improve (although that's increasingly debatable), the argument is about now. Would I swap my retirement prospects for the boomers generation? Absolutely l would, and doubly more so for my kids. There was always an expectation that each generation would be better off than the previous one, and people were obviously happy with that. That's now demonstrably broken (even life expectancy is decreasing). I don't know why that's hard for some to recognise and not want to correct. I'd also rather be young and have my life again whatever the shit they have to deal with. Drinknlots of beer and have lots of sex. But that ain't happening either! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 27739 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 24 minutes ago, scoobos said: In Monkseaton and Whitley bay? it's very well to do - I've just moved here and its got a very well to do feel with those mums and toddlers and all the "hobby shops". Why not try my old neck of the woods and do the same on Welbeck road? I feel bad about the boomers thing for people in that bracket who legitimately didn't support and vote for Thatcher and 10 years of Tories. I think the problem is (or in my own personal view, the problem is) that it's that generation that are on Social Media all the time talking politics and they always come out with stuff along the lines of: "Tories / Farage are the only people with balls to fix this country - share if you agree" "I'm not paying for people to have children and live in luxury" - share if you agree "Life was hard for us too, kids need to stop eating Avacado" etc etc. Whilst simultaneously forgetting all the enablers that helped , yes times were tough - but it's that generation that have voted in successive governments that enable excessive consumption and cuts cuts cuts. In the 70's we had: Jobs from school at 15 and you could stay with the same employer for life if you wanted (Unions , apprenticeships , Nationalised industries) Free education at all levels Free dentistry and healthcare Regulated banks (this was huge) Child benefit uncapped Social Housing Regulated rental industry (even the rent act 1965, 77) And the Tories call it the politics of envy that we are unhappy with the deregulation and reduction of taxes for the wealthy - since Thatcher The fact is that the generation before COULD survive and bring a family up on 1 persons wage - and these families were BIG 2 children minimum up to 6 or 7 in my parents generation. I know also though that the family didnt have xboxes etc, or even guaranteed meals in some cases. But it was a generation that shared and had community spirit because they had to share - now that that's taken away the generation appear to be arguing that they want the UK to be like the 70's - but without actually being willing to share or go through any hardship themselves. Look at the comments on BBC today about lifting the 2 child cap on UC - they make it sound like we are talking about the equivalent of a salaried wage being given away. It's a support network for the child. But when its something that affects the boomer generation .. wow. (admittedly though, its only them and workshy fops like me that are writing comments on bbc, other than bots and paid peeps) The reality is now, if you are in a working class or retail job it is not even possible to survive with both peoples wages and 2 children without loading debt . And who was it that bought right into consumerism and globalisation , only to blame kids now for being consumerist. We reduced all regulation on advertising, imports, destroyed unions, destroyed 100's of thousands of jobs in traditional industry areas for "cheap imports" - without giving any alternative path? A cause of areas like south hetton are down to stripping away the possibility of work for an entire generation, who already had children without any practical alternative - the tory alternative is to think that everyone has the same opportunity and "just move to work". What a great post. I'm off to lech some brunch eating mombies now on my daily walk. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 12321 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 1 hour ago, ewerk said: Won't someone think of the grannies in their £2m houses being asked to pay just 0.125% of their house's value! As I said last night, I want to know the mechanism as to how this is going to work. According to Savills there are currently around 145,000 UK homes valued at more than £2m and expected to rise to about 190,000 by 2028. How is the valuation of these properties going to be determined and more importantly, at what cost. It's a thin end of the wedge anyway, likely to generate around £400m per annum for the public purse - a figure that'll no doubt reduce once you factor in the implementation costs. It's a great idea in principal, but they needed to jump in with both feet - not just stick their toe in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 388 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Craig said: As I said last night, I want to know the mechanism as to how this is going to work. According to Savills there are currently around 145,000 UK homes valued at more than £2m and expected to rise to about 190,000 by 2028. How is the valuation of these properties going to be determined and more importantly, at what cost. It's a thin end of the wedge anyway, likely to generate around £400m per annum for the public purse - a figure that'll no doubt reduce once you factor in the implementation costs. It's a great idea in principal, but they needed to jump in with both feet - not just stick their toe in the water. I'm hoping they'll sneak a couple of restorations in , in each budget - they committed to making budgets annual - if that's the case (hopefully no war!) then they've got another 2 budgets left at least. I'd like to see some more done to try and combat all these multinationals who use shell companies in tax havens for profits and UK companies for losses - in my view this is why the Employers NI increase had to be made. Amazon can pretend that its shipping stuff from Amazon S.A.R.L to you at 10am the next morning when you order at 9pm the day before and put that sale through luxembourg - but they can't disguise the fact they are hiring UK employees due to the legal need for NI numbers etc . It is the only way to try get revenue out of the multinationals and get away from HMRC making "case based" deals with these companies. IF , just IF amazon, vodafone, 3, EE etc had to pay corporation tax at 20% on UK profits (with all sales being properly registered through a UK entity - and no overseas losses allowed through the UK entity) we'd make billions. We've taken this country to a point where I think people legitimately believe that any operating cost (be it genuine tax, a fine, or any regulatory cost) - should be passed onto customers. We need to get back to the shit we had in the 90's - it was still shit, but at least then companies used to think "if we pollute we get fined 4% but profit is 5% so we'll still make 1% profit by doing x" Now its "if we get fined 4% we've no choice but pass that cost onto the consumer" Thats what neoliberal politics, social media and the complete collapse of any Anti Monopoly rules has done. Christ, 3 years ago we had energy companies saying that costs had gone up so they had to increase energy prices by >10% and what did our governments do? They took money out of the public purse and gave it straight to the energy companies and private sector. I mean seriously, how do they get away with it? You either believe in market forces / neoliberalism, or you don't. It completely breaks the law of supply and demand. Those companies also went on to make record profits - same as most multinationals right now in the UK. And no.. other countries DONT do this and the companies DONT leave the market - ANY profit is viable. Canada wont allow the import of goods it cannot recycle into certain provinces. Prince Edward island doesnt take plastic bottles at all , coca cola didnt exit the market, they supply glass bottles. But like the Labour party of today. in my opinion it isnt a matter of strength it's a matter of media ownership, the Nudge Unit going private, Meta's rise , algorithm and fact checking removal - the media , the oligarchs , russia / china are laughing at how malleable we've been. (what im trying to say is that if they tried to enact any true policies so early in their term, then the screw would be turned so tight they couldn't win another, because the public opinion majority is now fairly easy to manipulate by the elite who don't want regulation, or seek to divide and conquer our international and domestic influence) I do think though, that internet and social media makes it look far worse than it is - the majority of people in my social circles are not greedy and want taxes to at least move half way back to where they were with Thatcher . Business owners used to want legacy and to leave legacy behind (Henry Ford even in America) - now its become trying to get into a position of "the sovereign individual" (cheers Lord Mogg you odious elitist) Edit .. lol what a rant.. all my opinion , but I like to think some of it is accurate at least. I lived with and had friends that are multi millionaires and they all find it stressful and want to be able to take back a bit of control. In most countries its illegal for a CEO of a PLC to do anything philantrophic with their companies - it has to come out of their own pocket because business profits "isn't their money , its the shareholders" . In the USA the only way you can do anything charitable legally, is if you can justify that it will in some way increase profits (e.g. its good advertising) Edited November 27 by scoobos 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 15507 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 2 hours ago, Renton said: I mean, is you're suggestion here that other people don't? Enjoy your triple locked inflation busting pension increase the country can't afford mate 👍 Not at all, everyone does, and has done since time immemorial, some just don't incessantly whine about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 12321 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 2 hours ago, Alex said: I guess the biggest problem for the younger generations are the difficulties with social mobility. It seems fairly hopeless to me in this country unless you have family or whatever to give you a financial leg up. I don’t know how you get in the housing ladder otherwise. There’s then a lack of security which makes it difficult to plan for the future and plan a family or whatever because you’re either stuck living with relatives or at the whims of the rental market. The cost of living has exacerbated all of this along with stagnation of wages. I know other people struggled by in past but I think the idea of being able to work hard, save up and buy a house was accessible to more people then. I’m canny old myself now tbh so I remember the 80s and even the 70s a little bit so I know everything wasn’t rosy for everyone back then and appreciate where you’re coming from I don't care if anything says or thinks it's looking towards halycon days and it's rose-tinted, it is demonstrably far harder to get on the housing ladder than it used to be. Listening to my folks who bought their first house in 1963 it was akin to buying a car - so long as you could provide evidence of regular income you were going to be accepted for a mortgage. Everyone's opinion of where the balance tilted unfairly between salaries / cost of living and the valuation of property but IMO it was 25-30 years ago and it's been getting progressively worse since. I'm in my late 40s, earning £70k with no savings and a small amount of debt to consolidate and I can't get on the market. I rent a 2 bed end of terrace for £1250pcm which is unbelievably good value round here and I've seen mortgage illustrations suggest my salary would permit a mortgage of around £450K with repayments below what I'm paying in rent if only I could string a deposit together. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 388 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 1 minute ago, Craig said: I don't care if anything says or thinks it's looking towards halycon days and it's rose-tinted, it is demonstrably far harder to get on the housing ladder than it used to be. Listening to my folks who bought their first house in 1963 it was akin to buying a car - so long as you could provide evidence of regular income you were going to be accepted for a mortgage. Everyone's opinion of where the balance tilted unfairly between salaries / cost of living and the valuation of property but IMO it was 25-30 years ago and it's been getting progressively worse since. I'm in my late 40s, earning £70k with no savings and a small amount of debt to consolidate and I can't get on the market. I rent a 2 bed end of terrace for £1250pcm which is unbelievably good value round here and I've seen mortgage illustrations suggest my salary would permit a mortgage of around £450K with repayments below what I'm paying in rent if only I could string a deposit together. I've a spare bedroom in my mini mansion you can have for 600 a month if you want? I wont let you shit in the bathroom though, there's a pub just up the top of the street you can use for that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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