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I don't think we are in an excellent position. Nobody does, not even Gideon. If you do, its obvious you understand nothing regarding the terrible shape of our economy. Know you have no understanding of the importance of economic growth, without which we're fucked basically.

 

I didnt say we were in an overall excellent position, I was referring to the uk borrowing rates which are excellent. Maybe you should read a bit before jumping in or stick to your own advice and avoid discussion.

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Roses are red Violets are blue Please vote for Labour Unless you're a Jew

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Rhetoric swallowed good and proper. Rating agencies do not decide at what rate investors will lend to sovereigns, they simply give a view on their credit risk. Ultimately yield is a function of demand and supply and if there aren't many AAAs left then the money has to go to the next best place.

 

What happened when the US lost its AAA ratings? Its rates went LOWER. Because it is such a big issuer there simply wasn't anywhere else to go and it followed the downward pressure of relative safe havens (as seen with negative bund yields)

 

We're in a historic low-rate environment. It's actually the best time for the DMO to issue debt in decades. And don't think that austerity measures are seen as good by investors and spending seen as bad- it's not that simple. That debt has to be repaid some day, which will need productivity and tax revenues to support it- not a moribund zombie economy trying to print its way out of trouble.

 

Matt, Im sure people like yourself and Chez who work in and around financial markets can talk better about world wide finance, but the point I was making was that being able to borrow at very low levels is currently good for us as compared to the likes of Italy, greece etc

 

I agree with you about the effect of being downgraded by an agency but you just wait and see what happens on here if it happens :lol:

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I didnt say we were in an overall excellent position, I was referring to the uk borrowing rates which are excellent. Maybe you should read a bit before jumping in or stick to your own advice and avoid discussion.

 

No, you could read your post in more than one way. I was reading it in the context of your other posts, where everything in CT La La land is hunky dory.

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No, you could read your post in more than one way. I was reading it in the context of your other posts, where everything in CT La La land is hunky dory.

 

Its just mint how you and a few others, supposedly well educated decent folk, cant get involved in a discussion without coming in straight in like screaming little girl. Do you act this way in real life or do you live in Stepford?

 

If you just want to hear your own opinion then grab the Guardian and read, while nodding approvingly in front of a mirror.

 

Its a great shame that a thread which effects all of us is so little used, simply because a few tossers cant show a bit of self control and always spoil it for anyone who does want to discuss politics.

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Do you remember that Carlsberg advert, 'if carlsberg did banks'? That's what most small businesses want, lots of cheap money, no questions asked, and if it all goes tits up, well never mind, that's life eh. Set up again as Little co (2012) Ltd and everything is tip-top. At least that's what I found when I worked for one and with plenty others.

 

We've had an over-reliance on easy credit, no more so than in high-risk SMEs. What we are lacking is more equity or equity-like funding, which is not something banks would generally be involved in.

 

Anyway, King's point is that there is little capacity to be expanding lending, whether people are asking for it or not.

Edited by Matt
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Its just mint how you and a few others, supposedly well educated decent folk, cant get involved in a discussion without coming in straight in like screaming little girl. Do you act this way in real life or do you live in Stepford?

 

If you just want to hear your own opinion then grab the Guardian and read, while nodding approvingly in front of a mirror.

 

Its a great shame that a thread which effects all of us is so little used, simply because a few tossers cant show a bit of self control and always spoil it for anyone who does want to discuss politics.

 

You really are a massive hypocrite CT. I'll leave it at that because frankly I haven't got the energy or time at the minute for this shit.

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snapback.pngChristmas Tree, on 06 December 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

 

You dont think its good that we can borrow at lower rates than Germany? Are you mad?

 

So why are you advocating a policy of shunning all that cheap money in favour of grinding people into the dirt?

 

:lol: I dont think many people get how ridiculous this line of argument is.

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Do you remember that Carlsberg advert, 'if carlsberg did banks'? That's what most small businesses want, lots of cheap money, no questions asked, and if it all goes tits up, well never mind, that's life eh. Set up again as Little co (2012) Ltd and everything is tip-top. At least that's what I found when I worked for one and with plenty others.

 

We've had an over-reliance on easy credit, no more so than in high-risk SMEs. What we are lacking is more equity or equity-like funding, which is not something banks would generally be involved in.

 

Anyway, King's point is that there is little capacity to be expanding lending, whether people are asking for it or not.

 

I think Banks got into trouble gambling in foreign markets and buying up dodgy property portfolios rather than lending to Fred the Plumber.

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snapback.pngChristmas Tree, on 06 December 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

 

You dont think its good that we can borrow at lower rates than Germany? Are you mad?

 

 

 

:lol: I dont think many people get how ridiculous this line of argument is.

 

There must be a reason though Chez why no main stream political party seems to want to go down that road?

 

At the last election there was ciggy paper difference between the proposals from Labour and Conservative on Austerity measures.

 

I know you keep promoting Keynsian, but you never say why all of our political parties ignore him "yet its so obviously the right way".

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I think Banks got into trouble gambling in foreign markets and buying up dodgy property portfolios rather than lending to Fred the Plumber.

 

The money they used/use to lend to Fred was secured on your dodgy shite though - shite rated as gold by your rating agency gods.

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the tories really are prolonging the misery. and there isn't a plan b. plan b seems to be more of plan a. if the medicine isn't working, let's not bother changing it - let's just have some more.

 

i think what's really going on is the tories are taking this opportunity to try to rewrite the social contract that was established when the the nhs was formed in 1948. and it there's a good chance they might get away with as the public might not notice until it's too late. but let's be clear - a decade of cuts will impact everyone. the middle classes will be start sharing the pain before long.

 

and they keep saying we're all in this together but then go after the poorest in society with more cuts to the welfare state.

 

they're cunts basically. thatcher summed them all up when she said there's no such thing as society. that's the way these privileged toffs all think. i was born into wealth so why should i give a shit about the man born into poverty?

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There must be a reason though Chez why no main stream political party seems to want to go down that road?

 

At the last election there was ciggy paper difference between the proposals from Labour and Conservative on Austerity measures.

 

I know you keep promoting Keynsian, but you never say why all of our political parties ignore him "yet its so obviously the right way".

 

Because thanks to the media the populace are as clueless as you and in general cannot be persuaded because of that.

 

 

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the whole attack on the the 'benefit culture' really boils me tits too. does anyone really think the majority of people that are on benefits want to be on benefits? it's madness. here's a little secret - being on benefits when you have to worry about rising food and fuel prices is not fun for the majority. hardly the life of riley the daily mail would have you believe.

 

and they're not the ones that created the financial crisis. just an easy scapegoat to make pay for it now.

Edited by Dr Gloom
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the whole attack on the the 'benefit culture' really boils me tits too. does anyone really think the majority of people that are on benefits want to be on benefits? it's madness. here's a little secret - being on benefits when you have to worry about rising food and fuel prices is not fun for the majority. hardly the life of riley the daily mail would have you believe.

 

and they're not the ones that created the financial crisis. just an easy scapegoat to make pay for it now.

 

Capitalism has always had and always will have a steady pool of unemployed. It's the nature of the beast and to do with complex things chez can explain. If anything I'm in favour of handing out serious amounts of money to the disadvantaged so they can change their lives. :lol:

Edited by Park Life
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We've all got everything wrong but you eh? When did you turn into such a patronising cunt ffs :lol:

At the time of the crash I remember having a go at the head of finance at my previous place when he came out with "once again labour have ruined the economy and the Tories will have go fix it."

 

He works in a bank and fucking knew the root causes but still clung to the southern attitude based on thatcherite bollocks. The classic cliche you've used about sheep voting labour in the ne is more than matched by willfully ignorant so called educated people in the south and unfortunately that won't change and labour have to try and pander to them.

 

I'd love to see a party of truth unafraid to call a spade a spade but that hope is now dead on a base of capitalist selfishness. Unfortunately Thatcher won and her bastard children (Blair as well) will rule forever.

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Capitalism has always had and always will have a steady pool of unemployed. It's the nature of the beast and to do with complex things chez can explain. If anything I'm in favour of handing out serious amounts of money to the disadvantaged so they can change their lives. :lol:

 

Of course there's an optimal level of unemployment and availability of labour but we're well above that rate.

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