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1 hour ago, spongebob toonpants said:

We've been paying the price for the dismantling the unions for 35 years. Labour didn't try and overturn that, and now it's doing the same here.

I don't want to speak for @Rayvin but if  we don't draw a line in the sand we've already lost. What's the point in voting for them

As I said the precedent for Starmer undoing nothing is the fucking nothing Blair undid. 

 

"Nobody needs unions in the 21st century"  said the neoliberal scum. 

 

Well guess what?

 

By the way "massive vote in favour of rejoining" - think a-fucking-gain:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020–present)

 

 

Edited by NJS
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19 minutes ago, NJS said:

As I said the precedent for Starmer undoing nothing is the fucking nothing Blair undid. 

 

"Nobody needs unions in the 21st century"  said the neoliberal scum. 

 

Well guess what?

 

By the way "massive vote in favour of rejoining" - think a-fucking-gain:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020–present)

 

 

 

Have you got a link to that Blair quote? I don't remember it ans can't find anything remotely resembling it on Google?

 

Those polls surprise me, they're different to all the ones I've seen. I notice they're all online, is that normal?

 

Worth noting BTW that whilst Mike Lynch is rightly getting a lot of credit at the moment, he is a brexiter so I personally question his judgement and motives. 

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4 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

We've been paying the price for the dismantling the unions for 35 years. Labour didn't try and overturn that, and now it's doing the same here.

I don't want to speak for @Rayvin but if  we don't draw a line in the sand we've already lost. What's the point in voting for them

Now don't be like that. you know the point in voting for anyone other than Tory, strategically - don't let them win just by dissapointment that the other parties are not doing what you want either. 

Never forget that there's no other party who's core belief is that public services should not exist , unless absolutely necessary and who have stolen from everyone but the elite . No other party is increasing that behaviour, every choice is a reduction.
 

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Also, wasn't Mike Lynch a bit disappointing tonight? He didn't mention any of the killer lines he's being doing on shitty breakfast shows on QT. 

No mention of ticket prices rising in line with RPI for 10 years and wages falling in real terms since then.
No mention of the 500 million profit line.

Also missed the chance to shut down the people saying "You need to modernise, why cant someone working at Paddington go and work at Euston?" - Cos its a fucking set of franchises you daft twat, or as the worker rightly said "It's life doing work for Sainsburys and then going into Asda and doing it for them" its separate companies 😕 

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4 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Because however small, it's still steps in the right direction. Will give the country a chance to stabilise a bit, defuse some of the bad will we have garnered with the EU. Hope that bigger steps follow this. Rejoining the SM was always going to take a decade by my calculations, although this still disappointis me. But mainly because, the alternative is almost unthinkable. 

 

All that may be true, but I want to express my dismay for a moment at how powerless we are in all of this. For all NJS listed those Brexit surveys as a warning that it wasn't as clear cut as we like to think, 40+% of people want to rejoin. It should not be taboo or difficult for Labour to find a way to win on that platform. At the very least, we should feel confident that we have the power to create some movement on it. In fact, we could do it through a fucking electoral pact as the data appears to show.

 

But the appetite isn't there, Labour dont want to do it. It isn't impossible, they just don't want to. They're sticking to the decisions they made on analysis of their electoral data and they're counting on the fact that people like you are too socially conscious to make a stand. They're not dealing with the real issues, they're just taking people like us for granted to try and woo the fuckwits who got us into this mess in the first place.

 

We are informed, aware, and compassionate voters who are being told that we can't have the reality we want because we're not dangerously ignorant and can be trusted to make a sacrifice for everyone else.

 

I reject this position fundamentally and deeply. It entrenches the malaise, the despair and the direction. Aside from anything else, as you said yourself, there are no big ideas. We need a fucking direction in this country, and we need it pretty urgently.

 

We cannot keep accepting the bar lowering.

 

 

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Well a good result on both by-elections at least. I'll be tuning in to BBC Breakfast to see if they can spin this as not actuallly too bad for Johnson. 

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The terminally useless Oliver Dowden has resigned as party chairman, although I'm not sure of this is in protest at the leadership or some sort of "don't blame Boris, it was all my fault" move. 

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Sky think it's in protest at Johnson and are wondering if we'll see further resignations today. We'll see, I guess. 

 

Also Dowden was supposed to do the morning broadcast round today, so now we see whether anyone else from the cabinet will step up to back Johnson. My money's on the dicklick's dicklick Zahawi. 

 

If no one steps up though, might be signs of trouble for Johnson. 

Edited by Gemmill
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Absolutely terrible night for Labour, coming third in Tiverton and only having a 12.7% swing to them in Wakefield 

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33 minutes ago, Alex said:

Absolutely terrible night for Labour, coming third in Tiverton and only having a 12.7% swing to them in Wakefield 

 

Believe it or not, Gavin Barwell was on Sky arguing that this wasn't great for Starmer. :lol:

 

On this morning's media round, first Patel briefly got named as Dowden's replacement, to quickly be replaced by Raab, and he's been a no-show. 

 

When the Deputy PM and chief hoopsniffer won't turn up to defend you, you're in bother. Maybe we're gonna see an attempted coup...? 

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If last night shows anything then it's the value of electoral pacts and tactical voting. Sadly I expect this to change absolutely nothing.

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Good summary on exactly why the RMT are striking. Stick it on your Facebook in response to anyone complaining about their journey times. 

 

Obviously I'm not on FB but you basic bitches will be. 

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I caught a bit of question time and saw that bint say that. Didn’t they used to have more than about 15 people in the audience by the way? The RMT fella didn’t come across as particular insightful. Pretty much sums up the level of political debate on TV in this country. Stratford-upon-Avon really seemed like an ‘odd’ choice to gauge the mood of the nation too

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Here we go, they've finally found a tory that will come on the news. The compromised Robert Buckland with his teeth like a witch doctor's necklace. 

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6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

All that may be true, but I want to express my dismay for a moment at how powerless we are in all of this. For all NJS listed those Brexit surveys as a warning that it wasn't as clear cut as we like to think, 40+% of people want to rejoin. It should not be taboo or difficult for Labour to find a way to win on that platform. At the very least, we should feel confident that we have the power to create some movement on it. In fact, we could do it through a fucking electoral pact as the data appears to show.

 

But the appetite isn't there, Labour dont want to do it. It isn't impossible, they just don't want to. They're sticking to the decisions they made on analysis of their electoral data and they're counting on the fact that people like you are too socially conscious to make a stand. They're not dealing with the real issues, they're just taking people like us for granted to try and woo the fuckwits who got us into this mess in the first place.

 

We are informed, aware, and compassionate voters who are being told that we can't have the reality we want because we're not dangerously ignorant and can be trusted to make a sacrifice for everyone else.

 

I reject this position fundamentally and deeply. It entrenches the malaise, the despair and the direction. Aside from anything else, as you said yourself, there are no big ideas. We need a fucking direction in this country, and we need it pretty urgently.

 

We cannot keep accepting the bar lowering.

 

 

 

There is one element to this I think your are forgetting or dismissing. We're used to arguing in a bubble in this country, scarcely even acknowledging their are third parties in all this, namely the EU and EFTA. We can't just do a 180 and decide to rejoin, there is absolutely no guarantee every EU state would agree to this and indeed I don't think France would for one. EFTA countries have already ruled out membership I believe and as far as I know there is no other way of accessing the EEA (SM). So for pragmatic reasons alone, I believe we would have to tread slowly and become trusted again within the frameworks of the current deal before jrejoining was ever a possibility. We would also require a referendum with a super majority imo. We are miles from that.

 

The bar isn't being lowered, it si being incrementally raised by labour. The bar will only be lowered with another tory victory which would be catastrophic. By all means, don't vote for Labour if you can't hold your nose to the present situation, but then don't complain about the result.

 

Still waiting for @NJS to show me when Blair said there was no place for unions in the 21st century btw. 

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Buckland looks like he's sitting in his a Beamish living room. :lol: He's 7 years older than me and he lives in the house of an 80 year old. 

 

 

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When they announced the Newcastle result for the EU referendum, even though remain won, the margin suggested it was time to worry. 

 

You can call me negative if you like but Wakefield looks the same to me - as suggested by Gemmill's post above. 

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3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

There is one element to this I think your are forgetting or dismissing. We're used to arguing in a bubble in this country, scarcely even acknowledging their are third parties in all this, namely the EU and EFTA. We can't just do a 180 and decide to rejoin, there is absolutely no guarantee every EU state would agree to this and indeed I don't think France would for one. EFTA countries have already ruled out membership I believe and as far as I know there is no other way of accessing the EEA (SM). So for pragmatic reasons alone, I believe we would have to tread slowly and become trusted again within the frameworks of the current deal before jrejoining was ever a possibility. We would also require a referendum with a super majority imo. We are miles from that.

 

The bar isn't being lowered, it si being incrementally raised by labour. The bar will only be lowered with another tory victory which would be catastrophic. By all means, don't vote for Labour if you can't hold your nose to the present situation, but then don't complain about the result.

 

Still waiting for @NJS to show me when Blair said there was no place for unions in the 21st century btw. 

I was speaking figuratively about the people around him who had no interest in the unions other than finance and conference votes. 

 

 

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