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1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

Does it ever bother you that we don't know what they stand for on key issues like this? I know you believe this to be strategy, and it will be, but I don't think it's the strategy you believe it to be. Your view is that they have their plans and policies and that we can trust them to pop up with those at the right moment and reveal that they've been fully in step with us all along. Right?

 

What if they're just seeing which way the wind blows? That's what I think they're doing. And the more we shut up, the less the wind blows our way. They are career politicians and Labour in particular has spent the past 12 years reacting to things rather than getting out ahead of anything. Trust has already been broken, it's difficult to ignore that.

I was just rowing with the Liberal Democrat PR team about this a few months ago - get a frickin Manifesto up on your website and let people know , don't just react to issues of the day.

We will do one closer to the time, because laying it out now either helps the party in power , or lets them know what they have to attack. 

Meanwhile, if you go to their website:

This unfortunately named URL:
https://www.libdems.org/plan 

 

To me, being critical (and I'm a supporter) , this sends the worst possible message that they dont have a plan - they can't even maintain their website.

2019 Manifesto.

They still haven't changed it and I whine monthly at them, along with a few others. 

Finally, tin foil hat piece - but I've always been a bit sceptical since the Introduction of the Behavioural Insights Team , that the government has too much power to influence and control, if we are going to do this stuff for "sending better public health messages" then NHS Digital should do it, not a government in power. Also, I've been highly suspicious of "advisors" to competing parties - during the last GE - is it co-incidence that the advisors they hired gave them the worst possible advice ever? Like "Stop Brexit" for the libs and "Radio silence" for the Labour party? (That last bit is paranoid I know, but it doesn't stop this nagging feeling, who are these advisors?)

 



 

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Just now, Renton said:

 

Well PR hasn't even entered the arena as a thing yet, but it would definitely be weaponised by the tories. I think a coalition is the only chance of getting it through, although you have to think it wouldn't pass a referendum anyway. I simply don't understand why people don't understand we don't even live in a real democracy without it. So I despair there a bit.

 

But anyway, I say you need to wait for the manifesto. You know that this party is slightly left of centre, and I would expect policies built around that axis, which personally suits me, as I was happy under Blair. If you can't live with that, then so be it, but once again it outlines the importance of PR ove EU membership. Every vote should count and you should have the right to be represented. 

 

I would like to think Labour is a bit more than slightly left of centre even under Starmer tbh...

 

As said, I'll throw in behind PR in any sense. I still think we should do a deal with the devil on that tbh. Reform UK is a PR focused party that seems to be hovering on about 4%. Farage is a campaigner at heart and for all that we all hate him, he could help us secure this. I do share your concerns on that eventual vote though.

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6 minutes ago, scoobos said:

I was just rowing with the Liberal Democrat PR team about this a few months ago - get a frickin Manifesto up on your website and let people know , don't just react to issues of the day.

We will do one closer to the time, because laying it out now either helps the party in power , or lets them know what they have to attack. 

Meanwhile, if you go to their website:

This unfortunately named URL:
https://www.libdems.org/plan 

 

To me, being critical (and I'm a supporter) , this sends the worst possible message that they dont have a plan - they can't even maintain their website.

2019 Manifesto.

They still haven't changed it and I whine monthly at them, along with a few others. 

Finally, tin foil hat piece - but I've always been a bit sceptical since the Introduction of the Behavioural Insights Team , that the government has too much power to influence and control, if we are going to do this stuff for "sending better public health messages" then NHS Digital should do it, not a government in power. Also, I've been highly suspicious of "advisors" to competing parties - during the last GE - is it co-incidence that the advisors they hired gave them the worst possible advice ever? Like "Stop Brexit" for the libs and "Radio silence" for the Labour party? (That last bit is paranoid I know, but it doesn't stop this nagging feeling, who are these advisors?)

 



 

 

Totally agree on your assessment of the LDs there, and that link failing is... well it's not good. Basically the same as how I see Labour in terms of their reluctance to push policy, though I suppose they're the experts.

 

I agree with your final paragraph. Our institutions and messaging is too politicised, and should be set up in a way that it can be handled independently and in a non-partisan fashion, as much as possible. Not sure on the advisors bit, I didn't watch any of that so can't comment. My view on the disaster of 2019 was actually, again, that we didn't get a functioning electoral pact going. I think it would have been quite different otherwise since I note that Remain favouring parties actually had a larger overall number of votes. That's not everything it takes in FPTP of course, but even so.

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The link actually works if you click through it, but in my opinion, the result is just as bad "Stop Brexit" ... and lots of other 3 year outdated stuff , amongst some really good strong policies.

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4 minutes ago, scoobos said:

The link actually works if you click through it, but in my opinion, the result is just as bad "Stop Brexit" ... and lots of other 3 year outdated stuff , amongst some really good strong policies.

 

It's blocked by my browser (Chrome). 

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2 hours ago, NJS said:

I agree but I don't think there's a game Corbyn could have played that would have got them on side - he had his failings but too many people decided they couldn't allow any kind of serious change to this country. 

Yeah, you’re probably correct. Would’ve been interesting first time round I suppose vs May though (acknowledge there were other factors too though) 

Edited by Alex
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On 22/06/2022 at 20:24, Tom said:

 


 

 

It's finally struck me what this reminds me of.

 

You can hear her saying it, can't you.....?

 

 

 

 

THEEEYYRA NORR IN THE PREMYA LEAGUHE, WEE ARGH!!

 

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I think there are now three previous tory leaders saying he should resign - Major, Haigh, and now Howard. He's clearly not going anywhere still though. On the plus side, the longer he stays, the more he screws their party. On the flip side, the longer he stays, the more he screws the country; 🤷‍♂️

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45 minutes ago, Renton said:

I think there are now three previous tory leaders saying he should resign - Major, Haigh, and now Howard. He's clearly not going anywhere still though. On the plus side, the longer he stays, the more he screws their party. On the flip side, the longer he stays, the more he screws the country; 🤷‍♂️


I think you can pretty much stick May in that category as well. She's never had any time for him whatsoever. 

Duncan-Smith & Cameron appear to be quiet however.

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22 minutes ago, NJS said:

It's the idea that the UK is at war which I find objectionable. 

The obvious follow up to comments from ministers about unprecedented times should be - how come our economic performance is the worst out of the G20 countries, bar Russia. Because they keep citing a number of concurrent global crises so the questions should be framed around why comparable economies are doing better. The only part of the UK doing reasonably well just happens to be the only part still in the single market 

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"What's your best patient delivery time? Come on! What's your best patient delivery time?! Ask me MINE! 32 seconds, ward to X-ray. BOSH!" 

 

A joke that only listeners to Athletico Mince will get. 

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56 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said:

Corbyn will be at the central station tomorrow from 08.00 with the RMT pickets and Ian Mearns if @Renton wants to get along for a signature or selfie? 

 

If the old cunt wans a square go, that's fine with me, ya cunt. 

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