Meenzer 14063 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I think he needs replacing (not because of this story), but who do you want instead? Oh, there's fuck all choice really, short of a truly left-field appointment (and no I don't mean Danny Alexander ). Cable would probably make the most sense, as he still enjoys a bit of residual respect (for a Lib Dem anyway) and could play a transitional role since he could hardly be seen to have any long-term ambitions. Farron I suspect is most likely, but he could easily come across as more of the same after Clegg. And of course there's the risk of picking someone who isn't one of the 15 LD MPs left after the next election... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Surely it's time for Simon? Edited February 25, 2013 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 I thought when I posted it, "hang on, what am I actually arguing here?" Considered editing but couldn't be arsed. Hung over and all over the shop here. Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14063 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Surely it's time for Simon? Hughes? Peter Tatchell would self-publicise himself to death... http://petertatchell.net/politics/Liberal-dirty-tricks-Bermondsey-by-election-30th-anniversary.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Hughes? Peter Tatchell would self-publicise himself to death... http://petertatchell.net/politics/Liberal-dirty-tricks-Bermondsey-by-election-30th-anniversary.htm What about the bloke who sounds like limp biscuit? Can't recall his name. Shagged a cheeky girl. Apparently he's calling for Clegg to resign today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14631 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 He's not an MP any more CT, or should I say TT's very own "Mr Politics"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14063 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Indeed. Lost his seat at the last election, straight on to HIGNFY the next day. Boris would be proud. Although I did just check, and unfortunately you have to be an MP to be LD party leader. Would have paved the way for some truly left-field nominations otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 He's not an MP any more CT, or should I say TT's very own "Mr Politics"? I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14631 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Indeed. Lost his seat at the last election, straight on to HIGNFY the next day. Boris would be proud. Although I did just check, and unfortunately you have to be an MP to be LD party leader. Would have paved the way for some truly left-field nominations otherwise. I know it would appear that you didn't know this crucial bit of info when suggesting that Lembit could be in the running for party leader though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 was brilliant, apart from Jo Brand... as i hate her http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMSUYeCzDU Very funny that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 it would appear that you didn't know this crucial bit of info when suggesting that Lembit could be in the running for party leader though.... I was just poking fun at Lib Dem oddballs. (MP's not Meenzer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Fair enough You're still wrong of course. Try to find an economist who goes along with the austerity measures... Krugman posits "overwhelming confirmation of the proposition that austerity has large negative impacts" Stiglitz says "Excessive austerity has had the predictable (and predicted) effect of inducing depressions and recessions" Bernanke has consistently said Austerity ain't no good "I don't think that sharp, immediate cuts in the deficit would create more jobs. I think in the short run that we're seeing already a certain amount of fiscal drag coming from state and local governments from the withdrawal of previous federal stimulus, so I think in the short run, you know, the fiscal tightening is at best neutral and probably somewhat negative for job creation." Peter Temin and David Vines have a new book where they recommend "putting austerity on hold (temporarily), expanding government spending and managing debt." There's countless examples. Can you come up with a credible expert who thinks your way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14063 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Can you come up with a credible expert who thinks your way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 With his degree in modern History and week spent folding towels at Selfridges. I'm sure the Nobel committee have him on their radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 You're still wrong of course. Try to find an economist who goes along with the austerity measures... Krugman posits "overwhelming confirmation of the proposition that austerity has large negative impacts" Stiglitz says "Excessive austerity has had the predictable (and predicted) effect of inducing depressions and recessions" Bernanke has consistently said Austerity ain't no good "I don't think that sharp, immediate cuts in the deficit would create more jobs. I think in the short run that we're seeing already a certain amount of fiscal drag coming from state and local governments from the withdrawal of previous federal stimulus, so I think in the short run, you know, the fiscal tightening is at best neutral and probably somewhat negative for job creation." Peter Temin and David Vines have a new book where they recommend "putting austerity on hold (temporarily), expanding government spending and managing debt." There's countless examples. Can you come up with a credible expert who thinks your way? All the "experts" who council the government and all the experts who council Labour plus most large financial institutions. Both Labour and Conservative fought the election promising austerity cuts. I don't think anyone doubts borrowing and spending money will see an upturn, the point is whether that upturn could be maintained and if not, it's not worth it. My opinion is that if the credit crunch won't go away then it will only be a short term high. I have long said that this will drag on for 10 / 20 years and that rather than a recovery we will simply adjust to this standard of living. That to me is what is happening and I see no signs that it will change any time soon. If Labour come up with a real solution I will welcome it but I fear we are in for lots of wasted / damaging years whilst the electorate are fooled by sleight of hand from power crazy politicians. Credit to Labour if they nail their colours to someone like Klugman etc but I think it will be the usual "we won't be as nasty as the Tories but we can't tell you what we'll do til we get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3985 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 So if its all inevitible why do you worship the idiots in charge and support their war on the poor and disabled? You also ignore the fact that the rich aren't being asked to adjust their living standards - i'd suggest we adjust them for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 All the "experts" who council the government and all the experts who council Labour plus most large financial institutions. Both Labour and Conservative fought the election promising austerity cuts. I don't think anyone doubts borrowing and spending money will see an upturn, the point is whether that upturn could be maintained and if not, it's not worth it. My opinion is that if the credit crunch won't go away then it will only be a short term high. I have long said that this will drag on for 10 / 20 years and that rather than a recovery we will simply adjust to this standard of living. That to me is what is happening and I see no signs that it will change any time soon. If Labour come up with a real solution I will welcome it but I fear we are in for lots of wasted / damaging years whilst the electorate are fooled by sleight of hand from power crazy politicians. Credit to Labour if they nail their colours to someone like Klugman etc but I think it will be the usual "we won't be as nasty as the Tories but we can't tell you what we'll do til we get in. I just linked you to the bank of England report that says there is not a current credit crunch. Lending is at pre-crash levels of availibility. The other way is the American way...and then some. They have not embraced austerity like we have and have seen a much better recovery. their stimulus was smaller than many economists argued in favour of, but it's still evidence of another way. If there's lots of experts you will be able to quote one of them. I think your notion of Gideon sitting with economic experts, poring over the numbers and the justifications for doing the right thing are highly misguided. Tory policy is what it is despite what the experts tell them, not because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 So if its all inevitible why do you worship the idiots in charge and support their war on the poor and disabled? You also ignore the fact that the rich aren't being asked to adjust their living standards - i'd suggest we adjust them for them. Regardless of the economy they are at least attempting to manage the economy sensibly (as Labour also promised 2010 tbf) whilst trying to fix some of the problems within government. All parties accept that benefit system needed fixing. They are attempting to do it. Then there is the way the have looked after pensioners by index linking pensions and raising the threshold for which they have to sell assets to pay for care. Or the way in which millions have been taken out of tax altogether. As for the rich, nice of Labour to do nowt for 13 years then put the tax rate up months before an election to make it look as though they were finally being hard on bankers etc. The Tories traditionally manage finance well, Labour traditionally undo the hard work and blow the lot. Nothing's changed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3985 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 How the fuck can someone who lived through the 80s say the tories manage finances well? Jesus wept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 I just linked you to the bank of England report that says there is not a current credit crunch. Lending is at pre-crash levels of availibility. That's absolute bollocks SME businesses are crying out for loans but can't get it. Mortgages wer readily available on no deposit but now not only do you need first class credit rating you also need around 15% up front. People were changing credit cards like underwear and getting loans galore simply filling an online form, now you have to offer your first born. The above is the landscape that allowed the country to recover from previous recessions. It's all gone and the credit crunch is very much alive and kicking. Quite astounded you think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The Tories traditionally manage finance well, Labour traditionally undo the hard work and blow the lot. Nothing's changed yet. Sad thing is, I think that misguided old trope is what you base your entire view upon. They're not handling the economy sensibly at all. They're just watching it die. An analogy would be that they own an empty house and the roof leaks, it's gonna cost £3k to replace, but they've decided they can't afford it. They could rent it for £1k a month if they sorted the roof and be back in profit after a short while, but they're claiming fiscal responsibility by not borrowing £3k in the first place and letting it sit unused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14063 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Mortgages wer readily available on no deposit but now not only do you need first class credit rating you also need around 15% up front. People were changing credit cards like underwear and getting loans galore simply filling an online form, now you have to offer your first born. The above is the landscape that allowed the country to recover from previous recessions. The above is the landscape that caused the recession! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Here's the first article I googled for you but Im still amazed at how naive you are about this. Not like you! http://m.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/05/drought-credit-small-businesses-worsening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 The above is the landscape that caused the recession! No it's not, the recession was caused by banks investing in foreign / American shit. I'm not saying that landscape was maintainable, just that it highlights why there is / will be no significant recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14063 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 No it's not, the recession was caused by banks investing in foreign / American shit. ...such as packages of no-deposit mortgages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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