Politics

[Rayvin 6472]

23 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

I’ve never had pride in my country, it’s fuck all to do with me, what should I be proud of.

 

I sympathise with this view and I would just say that I would have said the same pre-Brexit, but that after it I sort of look at what we were and realise that I did value the sense of positive internationalism and progressive values that the country had by the end of New Labour. I think looking back at it now, it would be fair to say that I carried unwitting pride for that, only realised through the loss of it.

[Gemmill 52687]

Labour has held the North Tyneside mayoralty but only by about 500 votes over Reform. 

 

And there's a full recount in the Runcorn by election where Reform ended up 4 votes ahead after the first count. That was a Labour 15,000 majority. 

[Andrew 5545]

54 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Labour has held the North Tyneside mayoralty but only by about 500 votes over Reform. 

 

And there's a full recount in the Runcorn by election where Reform ended up 4 votes ahead after the first count. That was a Labour 15,000 majority. 

Burnleys Labour MP was really mouthing off on twitter about people voting for reform the other day, came across like a right cunt.

 

Hopefully this is a wake up call for some of labour and they might start trying not to just be diet-tory

[Holden McGroin 8035]

It’s happening. Reform will snowball over the next few years unless Labour do something.

[Holden McGroin 8035]

Apparently if all votes are tied the winner is decided by a flip of a coin. No joke.

 

Looks like Labour have hung on to Doncaster but it’s clear now that Reform are the new opposition.

[Gemmill 52687]

Reform win by 6 votes in Runcorn. 

[Alex 37827]

Maybe, just maybe, trying to appeal to Reform voters isn’t the way forward for Labour 

[Gemmill 52687]

Aye, the Tories have already established that you can't out Reform Reform. Why the fuck Labour think they might fare any better is beyond me.

 

I think they're looking to America and what's happened to the Democrats, and this is their weird reaction to that. 

[Renton 24521]

The parliamentary system isn't set up for 3 or 4 major parties, fuck knows what will happen tbh. Agreed though the worst thing  Labour can do is chase the reform  vote. I still think they will hoist themselves on their own petard. 

[Meenzer 16819]

I honestly expected Reform to win it by more (and Betfair had it as a comfortable win too) - an easy opportunity to give an unpopular government and opposition a kicking and a departing MP who got done for assault. If he'd just quietly died instead then I reckon Labour would have won it handily enough. Doesn't make it any more pleasant having a crowing Farage all over the media this morning though. I know looks shouldn't matter in politics but I don't understand how anyone can look at his face and think "seems nice, definitely not a terrible cunt".

[Renton 24521]

Starmer should have shown his face, shook a few hands, in retrospect. But fuck the idiots in Runcorn. Canada showed us the way a few days ago. In Runcorn they're thinking, yeah, let's have a bit of Trumpism popularism over here by supporting his odious ickle spittle. 

[Gemmill 52687]

He's not that ickle. 

[Ayatollah Hermione 15127]

That political pivot for Labour where they actually start thinking of policies to improve things could come in handy now

[Rayvin 6472]

Pandering to the red wall voter has been a complete shambles post-Brexit, it doesn't work and has only cost them support amongst the people who would more naturally vote for them anyway. I want to vote for Labour, I do, why am I being repelled in order to win people who aren't listening anyway?

 

Beyond that, the most convincing messaging you can give any public is one that is based on what you actually believe in. We did have a moment when Labour won the GE to actually put the country back on the rails with compassionate left leaning governance - and we've squandered that for absolutely nothing. I do not believe Keir Starmer is a right winger or a closet Tory, but I do know that what he is instead is too weak to stand up for what he believes in. He is a missed opportunity, and in my eyes what we know about him now was apparent immediately after he won the leadership and U turned on everything he had promised. He is not pragmatic (in a political sense) because he doesn't have the skill required to be such - if he were, he'd be bringing people with him by deftly navigating policy positions to appeal to everyone. In reality it seems we're doing almost the complete opposite of that.

 

The people still with Labour now will be those who are terrified of Reform or the Tories winning. What I'm fairly sure they will not be, are people who have a heartfelt belief in Labour's political offering - because really, Labour don't even have that themselves.

[Rayvin 6472]

One other thing though - Reform vs the Tories. It's like in movies when the villain creates some feral, demonic evil to do its bidding, but then in a moment of poetic justice is consumed by said evil at the end, as it fails to control it. The Tories tried to avoid a minor splintering with Brexit, and instead have been eaten alive, fully torn apart, by the very thing their complacent, ignorant, wanton stupidity created. And it's no more than the pack of traitorous quislings deserve.

[Renton 24521]

28 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

He is not pragmatic (in a political sense) because he doesn't have the skill required to be such - if he were, he'd be bringing people with him by deftly navigating policy positions to appeal to everyone. In reality it seems we're doing almost the complete opposite of that

 

That's not pragmatism you're describing, it's impossibilism (?). To be pragmatic in that regard, appeal to everyone, would be popularism underpinned by lies. Every thing comes with trade offs and this is a point most people fundamentally don't understand. 

I think Labour has stuck quite well to it's manifesto commitments. They didn't promise much, the main thing was stability. We've got that. Things are improving incrementally, NHS metrics for instance. We're inching closer to Europe. No revolution was promised and it's been less than a year. What do people expect? 

So what's gone wrong? Winter fuel allowance withdrawn? Is that 150 quid a year enough to make pensioners switch to Reform en mass? At this point, you can only conclude that people are voting Reform as a protest or that they are genuine bone fide morons if they think Farage has solutions. 

[Rayvin 6472]

10 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

That's not pragmatism you're describing, it's impossibilism (?). To be pragmatic in that regard, appeal to everyone, would be popularism underpinned by lies. Every thing comes with trade offs and this is a point most people fundamentally don't understand. 

I think Labour has stuck quite well to it's manifesto commitments. They didn't promise much, the main thing was stability. We've got that. Things are improving incrementally, NHS metrics for instance. We're inching closer to Europe. No revolution was promised and it's been less than a year. What do people expect? 

So what's gone wrong? Winter fuel allowance withdrawn? Is that 150 quid a year enough to make pensioners switch to Reform en mass? At this point, you can only conclude that people are voting Reform as a protest or that they are genuine bone fide morons if they think Farage has solutions. 

 

Fair enough, but then 'what has gone wrong' becomes the complete lack of messaging and unifying narrative vision around it. The number of times I've defended Labour now while arguing about the steps they're taking to combat immigration and so on... why am I doing that and not Labour? Why am I doing it at all ffs, I need a fucking life.

[Howmanheyman 38038]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

That's not pragmatism you're describing, it's impossibilism (?). To be pragmatic in that regard, appeal to everyone, would be popularism underpinned by lies. Every thing comes with trade offs and this is a point most people fundamentally don't understand. 

I think Labour has stuck quite well to it's manifesto commitments. They didn't promise much, the main thing was stability. We've got that. Things are improving incrementally, NHS metrics for instance. We're inching closer to Europe. No revolution was promised and it's been less than a year. What do people expect? 

So what's gone wrong? Winter fuel allowance withdrawn? Is that 150 quid a year enough to make pensioners switch to Reform en mass? At this point, you can only conclude that people are voting Reform as a protest or that they are genuine bone fide morons if they think Farage has solutions. 

 

My in-laws live in North Tyneside, the FiL has been in hospital and the MiL is disabled so they asked me to post their votes for them. They almost always have GB News on so no prizes for guessing which way they'll have voted. I was very tempted to chuck their postal ballots in the bin but I didn't in the end. Farage would have them fucked for their medical needs but they'll be conviently hidden away from those views by the cunts gaming the system.

[Meenzer 16819]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Fair enough, but then 'what has gone wrong' becomes the complete lack of messaging and unifying narrative vision around it. The number of times I've defended Labour now while arguing about the steps they're taking to combat immigration and so on... why am I doing that and not Labour? Why am I doing it at all ffs, I need a fucking life.

 

Agreed. This, essentially:

 

 

Even an Ed Davey type who's willing to engage in stupid stunts would be some kind of public face with a bit of personality for people to at least have an opinion of.

[Renton 24521]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Fair enough, but then 'what has gone wrong' becomes the complete lack of messaging and unifying narrative vision around it. The number of times I've defended Labour now while arguing about the steps they're taking to combat immigration and so on... why am I doing that and not Labour? Why am I doing it at all ffs, I need a fucking life.

 

The comms have been appalling, and I would definitely agree both Starmer and Reeves are as wooden as Pinocchio with oddly irritating voices. 

[Gemmill 52687]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/election-results-none-of-this-really?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1833442&post_id=162675602&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=172gw&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

Dunt. 

[Renton 24521]

5 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

Agreed. This, essentially:

 

 

Even an Ed Davey type who's willing to engage in stupid stunts would be some kind of public face with a bit of personality for people to at least have an opinion of.

 

Give it to the King of the North*. 

 

* Burnhamsy. 

[Meenzer 16819]

Case in point. This is objectively frivolous and the sort of thing you can get away with more as a minor party, but it's also... more human than anything Labour have done publicly since coming to power?   I mean, I'm aware they inherited a basket case of an economy and the world has gone even further to shit in the meantime, but you can still paint a picture that people might want to actually buy into, can't you?

 

[Rayvin 6472]

13 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/election-results-none-of-this-really?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1833442&post_id=162675602&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=172gw&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

Dunt. 

 

I broadly agree with a lot of this although it's a bit of a hail mary for Labour to go 'we'll look competent and then hope the economic situation improves' as their strategy for retaining power. I'd prefer them to have a bit more about them than that. We need a longer term pivot away from the culture war.

[PaddockLad 19718]

Labour need to worry the shit out of those who voted for them last time rather than Tory or Lib Dem about his links with Trump and his stated ambition to abolish the NHS. Probably enough for a vastly reduced majority. Carney in Canada shows the effect of a galvanising enemy. 
 

How the fuck would anyone over 40 with a pre existing condition get adequate and affordable health cover even through their employers is the first question I’d start asking. That should kill him dead outside of his base…

Edited 4 hours ago by PaddockLad