spongebob toonpants 3628 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I would have almost definitely gone for PR in the past, and in conscience depending how it was structured should go for it in the future. I have to confess though my current feelings would be to vote against anything Nick Clegg recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3989 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 My natural instinct is thet PR sounds right but even if ranking is voluntary the I'd struggle - if your second vote isn't one of the other two main parties then it's just s wasted as now. If I'd voted liberal as second choice last year then it may have swapped one Liberal for a Tory - the question is would that have made any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I would have almost definitely gone for PR in the past, and in conscience depending how it was structured should go for it in the future. I have to confess though my current feelings would be to vote against anything Nick Clegg recommended I know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 My natural instinct is thet PR sounds right but even if ranking is voluntary the I'd struggle - if your second vote isn't one of the other two main parties then it's just s wasted as now. If I'd voted liberal as second choice last year then it may have swapped one Liberal for a Tory - the question is would that have made any difference? I just think the current system is unfair. Labour's votes per seat ratio compared to the Tory's and especially the Lib-Dems just isn't democratic to my mind. Obviously you have to be careful about the details of any system which replaces the current one but I would really prefer one vote to equal exactly that across the country as a whole in a general election. It seems ridiculous to me that someone living in a marginal has a more valuable vote and a far greater say in the outcome of the election than someone in a safe seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 What are the potential benefits of AV to a voter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 What are the potential benefits of AV to a voter? Everyone gets what nobody wants © AWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3628 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 My natural instinct is thet PR sounds right but even if ranking is voluntary the I'd struggle - if your second vote isn't one of the other two main parties then it's just s wasted as now. If I'd voted liberal as second choice last year then it may have swapped one Liberal for a Tory - the question is would that have made any difference? I would have voted LIb second at the election, and I would be even more pissed off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3989 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 My natural instinct is thet PR sounds right but even if ranking is voluntary the I'd struggle - if your second vote isn't one of the other two main parties then it's just s wasted as now. If I'd voted liberal as second choice last year then it may have swapped one Liberal for a Tory - the question is would that have made any difference? I just think the current system is unfair. Labour's votes per seat ratio compared to the Tory's and especially the Lib-Dems just isn't democratic to my mind. Obviously you have to be careful about the details of any system which replaces the current one but I would really prefer one vote to equal exactly that across the country as a whole in a general election. It seems ridiculous to me that someone living in a marginal has a more valuable vote and a far greater say in the outcome of the election than someone in a safe seat. They sell the idea of an MP representin an area which imo is a barrier to true PR. Again I'm in two minds as I know a couple of lads who lost their jobs at Inetrconnect in SS a few years ago who received excellent help from Milliband - whetehre that help would be allocated to some regional level of representative is the big question for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Can't believe anyone does vote for the joke that is the Liberal democrats. The feeling I get with the LD voters I know is that they want to avoid arguments and general discourse about politics, so by voting for the LDs they can say, "Well yes I did vote (because not voting is bbadddd mmkay?), but I didn't vote for Labour or the Tories. So I am not to blame for anything. Leave me out of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) My natural instinct is thet PR sounds right but even if ranking is voluntary the I'd struggle - if your second vote isn't one of the other two main parties then it's just s wasted as now. If I'd voted liberal as second choice last year then it may have swapped one Liberal for a Tory - the question is would that have made any difference? I just think the current system is unfair. Labour's votes per seat ratio compared to the Tory's and especially the Lib-Dems just isn't democratic to my mind. Obviously you have to be careful about the details of any system which replaces the current one but I would really prefer one vote to equal exactly that across the country as a whole in a general election. It seems ridiculous to me that someone living in a marginal has a more valuable vote and a far greater say in the outcome of the election than someone in a safe seat. They sell the idea of an MP representin an area which imo is a barrier to true PR. Again I'm in two minds as I know a couple of lads who lost their jobs at Inetrconnect in SS a few years ago who received excellent help from Milliband - whetehre that help would be allocated to some regional level of representative is the big question for me. I suppose that's the biggest problem I have with it too as I like the idea, at least, of an MP representing the views and concerns of a particular constituency and being a voice for it in parliament. I'm not sure it holds these individuals that accountable in safe seats though. Edited January 14, 2011 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3989 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Can't believe anyone does vote for the joke that is the Liberal democrats. The feeling I get with the LD voters I know is that they want to avoid arguments and general discourse about politics, so by voting for the LDs they can say, "Well yes I did vote (because not voting is bbadddd mmkay?), but I didn't vote for Labour or the Tories. So I am not to blame for anything. Leave me out of it." As I mentioned at the time the LD campaign where I live was entirely based on "Labour can't win so the only way to stop a Tory is to vote for me" - doubly pathetic given the coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Can't believe anyone does vote for the joke that is the Liberal democrats. The feeling I get with the LD voters I know is that they want to avoid arguments and general discourse about politics, so by voting for the LDs they can say, "Well yes I did vote (because not voting is bbadddd mmkay?), but I didn't vote for Labour or the Tories. So I am not to blame for anything. Leave me out of it." As I mentioned at the time the LD campaign where I live was entirely based on "Labour can't win so the only way to stop a Tory is to vote for me" - doubly pathetic given the coalition. Their pamphlets in my area, which had been a Labour stronghold for many elections (since the constituency was formed in the 80s only the Torys/Labour have ever won elections here) until the Torys won by a few votes in the last election, promulgated the same line of shit that you're quoting there; they even mocked up some graphs to make it very clear that this was a clear race between the LDs/Tories. In the event, the Lib Dems gained some votes but came a distant third; their candidate for the area is a fucking joker, she is not qualified to run a corner-shop, let alone stand in parliament. I understand that this kind of misleading bullshit is common in local elections, but the Lib Dem pamphlets took the piss, they were a lot worse than the material from Labour/Torys - in my constituency at least. It was insulting. I ended up voting Labour, in the hope that the Torys wouldn't win this seat and gain a strong mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) The UK's economy suffered a shock contraction of 0.5% in the last three months of 2010, figures have shown. The severe weather hit activity in the quarter, but the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said even if the weather impact had been excluded, activity would have been "flattish". The Chancellor, George Osborne, said the numbers were disappointing. But he added the government would not be "blown off course" from its austerity programme. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12272717 for more Nice one George. CT? Edited January 25, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14112 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Was always going to happen. Labour losing the election will end up being the best thing that could have happened to them. Love the spin that the unexpected downturn is because of the weather, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 The UK's economy suffered a shock contraction of 0.5% in the last three months of 2010, figures have shown. The severe weather hit activity in the quarter, but the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said even if the weather impact had been excluded, activity would have been "flattish". The Chancellor, George Osborne, said the numbers were disappointing. But he added the government would not be "blown off course" from its austerity programme. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12272717 for more Nice one George. CT? In other words plus something I also think Labour and the unions have a lot to answer for by constantly talking the economy down and unsettling the public with talks of general strikes and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The UK's economy suffered a shock contraction of 0.5% in the last three months of 2010, figures have shown. The severe weather hit activity in the quarter, but the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said even if the weather impact had been excluded, activity would have been "flattish". The Chancellor, George Osborne, said the numbers were disappointing. But he added the government would not be "blown off course" from its austerity programme. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12272717 for more Nice one George. CT? In other words plus something I also think Labour and the unions have a lot to answer for by constantly talking the economy down and unsettling the public with talks of general strikes and the like. Seriously though, 0.5% down, wtf? Very worrying considering it's before VAT was put up or most the public cuts have taken effect. CT, if a double dip does happen, don't blame Labour, and don't say you weren't warned. I might add it's interesting doing my job for the NHS at the moment. It's like the whole structure has been smashed into a thousand pieces and thrown up into the air, with various groups trying to catch the pieces as they tumble back down to Earth. Utterly shambolic tbh, and this is just the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 The UK's economy suffered a shock contraction of 0.5% in the last three months of 2010, figures have shown. The severe weather hit activity in the quarter, but the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said even if the weather impact had been excluded, activity would have been "flattish". The Chancellor, George Osborne, said the numbers were disappointing. But he added the government would not be "blown off course" from its austerity programme. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12272717 for more Nice one George. CT? In other words plus something I also think Labour and the unions have a lot to answer for by constantly talking the economy down and unsettling the public with talks of general strikes and the like. Seriously though, 0.5% down, wtf? Very worrying considering it's before VAT was put up or most the public cuts have taken effect. CT, if a double dip does happen, don't blame Labour, and don't say you weren't warned. I might add it's interesting doing my job for the NHS at the moment. It's like the whole structure has been smashed into a thousand pieces and thrown up into the air, with various groups trying to catch the pieces as they tumble back down to Earth. Utterly shambolic tbh, and this is just the start. there may be a dip in this recovery due to the fact the public sector will now feel some pain, and I agree it will effect places like Wales and the North East worse than surrey, it still wont be as bad as the effects of 2008 Me, last summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Castell 0 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 It is embarrassing for Fletcher-Dervish and the rest of those dough-faced nancy boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Anyone see 'Posh and Posher' last night, a documentary about class and our political system narrated by Andrew Neil? If not and you've been reading this thread, get it watched on iPlayer, it was a real eye opener (especially you CT). Neil's conclusion was that if we want a more representative political system we need to re-introduce the Grammar school. I found it hard to disagree tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Anyone see 'Posh and Posher' last night, a documentary about class and our political system narrated by Andrew Neil? If not and you've been reading this thread, get it watched on iPlayer, it was a real eye opener (especially you CT). Neil's conclusion was that if we want a more representative political system we need to re-introduce the Grammar school. I found it hard to disagree tbh. I only saw the trailer and it made me mad enough to want to follow Bridget's example. It soon passed and I watched Michel Roux's Service instead.....the stupid lad touched the pancake with his fingers...eurgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Anyone see 'Posh and Posher' last night, a documentary about class and our political system narrated by Andrew Neil? If not and you've been reading this thread, get it watched on iPlayer, it was a real eye opener (especially you CT). Neil's conclusion was that if we want a more representative political system we need to re-introduce the Grammar school. I found it hard to disagree tbh. I only saw the trailer and it made me mad enough to want to follow Bridget's example. It soon passed and I watched Michel Roux's Service instead.....the stupid lad touched the pancake with his fingers...eurgh. I recommend you watch it HF. Just to get a handle of the horrifying statistics of it all if not to throw things at the odious public school kids ('yah, Eton has much better facilities than Oxford, yah?'). As for Michel Roux's latest offering, I normally lap that shit up but haven't been able to get into this one at all. I mean, the 'prize' in all this is to get a job - as a waiter? Wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Anyone see 'Posh and Posher' last night, a documentary about class and our political system narrated by Andrew Neil? If not and you've been reading this thread, get it watched on iPlayer, it was a real eye opener (especially you CT). Neil's conclusion was that if we want a more representative political system we need to re-introduce the Grammar school. I found it hard to disagree tbh. Didn't see it but was having a discussion about this recently. As I see it at least with the Grammar School system people are chosen on academic merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26597 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 And have half the country moan about how tough it is on kids to do exams/assessments at such a young age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Not a cat in hell's chance of it happening anyway imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26597 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately not. As a product of one myself I'd be all in favour of re-introducing it across the UK but given that they're still trying to abolish it in NI it's not likely. Edited January 27, 2011 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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