Politics

[Rayvin 4964]

8 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I don’t think that’s true at all. Knife crime stories are splashed all over our front pages when they occur, and rightly so. The effects of Tory austerity are horrific and have also been widely reported. 

Is it wrong that the antisemitism story has received so much coverage? That depends on what you think about what has been reported. It’s right to suggest that plenty of UK media groups are terrified of a Corbyn government and have jumped all over this story. It’s wrong to suggest this story doesn’t exist or isn’t newsworthy.

 

Yeah I didnt say anything about newsworthiness but I'd bet my last quid that in the previous 6 months  with the exception of Brexit,  no other topic has commanded more articles.

 

If I'm right, would you consider that proportionate coverage? If yes then we don't need to talk about this anymore since we fundamentally differ on this point.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 19835]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Yeah I didnt say anything about newsworthiness but I'd bet my last quid that in the previous 6 months  with the exception of Brexit,  no other topic has commanded more articles.

 

If I'm right, would you consider that proportionate coverage? If yes then we don't need to talk about this anymore since we fundamentally differ on this point.

I accept that some Tory publications will prioritise coverage of this over something like austerity, yes. But the reason the story gets so much coverage is because the leader of the opposition is doing little to make it go away and the longer that happens the more complicit he looks.

We didn’t dream this - we are talking about the leader of the opposition, a party leader who tolerates antisemtic conspiracy loons who share platforms with David fucking Icke but gives someone who has been the victim of antsemitc abuse and death threats the silent treatment for over a year.

I don’t have time to reread this thread and quote you verbatim but did you not claim that this story was simply a distraction, engineered by the MSM to smear Corbyn? That the problem is confined to twitter trolls and doesn’t exist within the Labour Party?

I think most people have a problem with the coverage and claim media bias because they don’t want to acknowledge that the problem exists. It goes against everything the Labour Party is supposed to stand for. That’s why it’s newsworthy. I’m glad the media is doing its job and informing people like this that it does exist and that it is indeed a serious problem.

[Rayvin 4964]

I said it was a distraction from more serious issues and that the only evidence of it i have seen has been Twitter trolls. This remains the case incidentally. Resignations are all well and good but they aren't evidence that any specific thing has actually happened.

 

As usual, my standards for evidence are too high it seems.

[Rayvin 4964]

Actually it remains the case with the exception of a couple of MPs who were disciplined over their comments. And I acknowledge that they were pretty useless over the Ken Livingstone situation.

 

Beyond that, I've seen very little. There was that video of Corbyn criticising an article written about his handling of the issue which was... not in the least antisemitic. There was that video of that guy they just suspended standing up in front of a local party meeting and denying that the issue exists, which isn't technically antisemitic either, even if it isn't true.

 

I dunno man, I'm old school. I need to actually see tangible evidence for this to be something I will worry about. And the press lost the right for me to take it on 'trust' about a decade ago.

[ewerk 26438]

You were defending that Dankula cunt who taught his dog to give Nazi salutes. When it comes to antisemitism you have a curious way of not being offended.

[Rayvin 4964]

As I recall, David Baddiel was also defending him. Because it was a joke.

 

The crux of the joke being, "my girlfriend thinks this dog is really cute all the time so I've taught it to do a nazi salute because it's the most horrific thing I can think of and will surely change her mind"

 

It was a bad joke, and was in poor taste, but it does not indicate to me that the individual saying it wanted to kill Jewish people.

[ewerk 26438]

And what sort of a man did he turn out to be?

[Rayvin 4964]

He joined UKIP recently and considers himself to be a free speech advocate. The latter being a fairly understandable position given he was brought before court on the basis that the court decided it could take his comments out of context for the purpose of sanctioning him. Which, if they applied that across the board, would see every single member of Toontastic in court too.

 

The joining of UKIP is part of a wider movement in the internet right wing to make itself relevant and to start effecting change in the real world. Yes they're all cunts, but I don't see why that means I can't think that this court case was ludicrous.

 

 

[ewerk 26438]

He's a chum of Tommy Robinson, that's the sort of man he is. He can try and dress his prejudice up as free speech but it doesn't take a genius to see what's under that thin veneer. 

[ewerk 26438]

That's right. I said chum.

[Tom 13870]

He's done well teaching the dog that in fairness. Ours can barely sit.

[Rayvin 4964]

Is he? You know more about his private life than I do then. I think there's a bunch of them in together for political reasons but that doesn't necessarily mean they're all of the same mind. Unless you believe all Labour MPs and Labour Party members are now antisemitic by association.

[ewerk 26438]

Well then you haven't been paying attention because I pointed it out to you before. 

Your comparison with Labour is ridiculous. I will categorically say that anyone associating with Tommy Robinson is a cunt.

[Rayvin 4964]

3 minutes ago, Tom said:

He's done well teaching the dog that in fairness. Ours can barely sit.

 

Careful, you could be taken to court for comments supporting radicalisation of pugs /ewerk

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, ewerk said:

Well then you haven't been paying attention because I pointed it out to you before. 

Your comparison with Labour is ridiculous. I will categorically say that anyone associating with Tommy Robinson is a cunt.

 

John Sweeney associated with him for the Panorama documentary, is he a cunt? If one day he gets elected to Parliament (which is fast becoming a possibility thanks to the BBC), will all MPs become cunts? Don't answer that last one.

[Tom 13870]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Careful, you could be taken to court for comments supporting radicalisation of pugs /ewerk

In fairness my widely publicised 'Pugs not Drugs' campaign will protect from a nasty charge. 

[Rayvin 4964]

28 minutes ago, ewerk said:

He's a chum of Tommy Robinson, that's the sort of man he is. He can try and dress his prejudice up as free speech but it doesn't take a genius to see what's under that thin veneer. 

 

23 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I will categorically say that anyone associating with Tommy Robinson is a cunt.

 

As an aside, while these two comments may make you feel good, brimming with righteous indignation, that's not how the legal system in this country can afford to work, is it? I haven't actually watched any of Dankula's videos beyond the nazi pug one because to me, he looks like a random bloke with a webcam, and not someone to whom any serious attention should be paid for political insight. Do many of his videos highlight a longstanding issue with antisemitism? Does it rear its head often? Is it even dog whistled? I suspect if there was evidence of this, it would have been raised loudly at the time.

 

You've gone down a blind alley with this one and your comments are reactionary. This is why I don't get suckered into the press' position on everything - they want this reactionary nonsense from otherwise rational people. It is acceptable to look at things on their own terms, and make your own conclusion. And disagreeing with the press' view after doing that, does not make you antisemitic (in this instance).

 

I'm gonna say, by the way, that I do not think there is a Jewish conspiracy running the world - I don't think there's a conspiracy full stop. I think there is a systemic problem that rewards a certain section of society disproportionately. I do not believe Israel should not exist, and I have sympathy with the fact that they are in effect surrounded by hostile nations, and that this influences their politics considerably. I do not think that Palestinians throwing rockets over the border are blameless when Israel responds. I don't even have an issue with Jewish people complaining about antisemitism in Labour. The only thing I do have an issue with, is the weaponisation of the story into apocalyptic proportions because it has the useful side effect of protecting the rich from Corbyn.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Rayvin

[Gemmill 34577]

Parklife! 

[Rayvin 4964]

It's because Parky exists that my last paragraph was necessary.

[Alex 30442]

Well he is one of the global elite 

[Alex 30442]

And a nazi 

[Rayvin 4964]

He must have been gone for a good year now...

[ewerk 26438]

27 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

 

As an aside, while these two comments may make you feel good, brimming with righteous indignation, that's not how the legal system in this country can afford to work, is it? I haven't actually watched any of Dankula's videos beyond the nazi pug one because to me, he looks like a random bloke with a webcam, and not someone to whom any serious attention should be paid for political insight. Do many of his videos highlight a longstanding issue with antisemitism? Does it rear its head often? Is it even dog whistled? I suspect if there was evidence of this, it would have been raised loudly at the time.

 

You've gone down a blind alley with this one and your comments are reactionary. This is why I don't get suckered into the press' position on everything - they want this reactionary nonsense from otherwise rational people. It is acceptable to look at things on their own terms, and make your own conclusion. And disagreeing with the press' view after doing that, does not make you antisemitic (in this instance).

I don't compile a 200 page page dossier to decide whether someone is a cunt or not, I only do that for voting records in Liverpool Waverly.

The man is obviously a cunt as has already been discussed in the SJW thread and used this nonsense to pocket nearly £200k in donations. Nice work if you can get it.

[Dr Gloom 19835]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

I said it was a distraction from more serious issues and that the only evidence of it i have seen has been Twitter trolls. This remains the case incidentally. Resignations are all well and good but they aren't evidence that any specific thing has actually happened.

 

As usual, my standards for evidence are too high it seems.

ARRRRGHHHHH!

[Dr Gloom 19835]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

Actually it remains the case with the exception of a couple of MPs who were disciplined over their comments. And I acknowledge that they were pretty useless over the Ken Livingstone situation.

 

Beyond that, I've seen very little. There was that video of Corbyn criticising an article written about his handling of the issue which was... not in the least antisemitic. There was that video of that guy they just suspended standing up in front of a local party meeting and denying that the issue exists, which isn't technically antisemitic either, even if it isn't true.

 

I dunno man, I'm old school. I need to actually see tangible evidence for this to be something I will worry about. And the press lost the right for me to take it on 'trust' about a decade ago.

FFS man, have you read any of the links i've posted in this thread? i've actually lost track of the evidence i've posted of antisemitism within the labour party. but ok, you asked for it. i'll continue.