Dr Gloom 19826 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 There's facts, and then there's interpretation of facts. You're engaged in the latter. The longer people keep deluding themselves with notions that go against the facts in the hope that their desires will eventually become a reality, the less likely it is that a successful strategy will emerge from the AshelyOut bunker. The facts in this case are quite clear: A boycott that doesn't empty a stadium, or at least produce one that is visibly empty on TV to the casual observer, is a failure if the stated aim was to show an empty stadium on TV as a result of a call for unity and strength. Media attention is nice, but it is usually fleeting in terms of a 'conversation', and it certainly has no effect on Ashley (I never understood the N-O logic which says that because Ashley felt threatened by prior protests, and thus, as it appears, gave up on us as a hobby and went into full business mode, that this was somehow a success). And there was media attention before the boycott in the national media, that was already hitting all the key messages AshleyOut is trying to push (as I had pointed out on N-O). And there will be after. Media attention of the sort the boycott produced is only really going to be useful to the campaign if they have something to say as a call to arms or other specific message to pass on (like stay the fuck out of the stadium for every game until he's gone) - they're eventually going to just get bored with saying 'NUFC fans are unhappy, but there's fuck all that can be done about it because Ashley doesn't give a rat's ass'. As Niall Quinn said, it's not like AshleyOut is pointing to an owner waiting in the wings or any other viable alternative. This is why all my proposed campaign ideas provided clear messages that the media could be used to carry to a specified target audience (the fans not yet on board, or sponsors, or the FA, or a prospective owner, etc). An example - obviously one goal of this boycott should have been to highlight the extraordinary step it is for NUFC fans not to enter the stadium precisely because we are normally extraordinarily loyal. Yet this message was only briefly touched upon by Niaill, and only really because he's already knowledgeable about us. From what I can see, there was no appreciation of the value of that specific message by anyone in the campaign - it could have been included on the tatty A4 sheets - therefore it wasn't really picked up by the coverage, and therefore isn't really going to be appreciated by people who read the headline figure - "boycott success! Just 30,000 fans turn up to the game". You're being pretty negative on the whole thing. 20k empty seats is a good first effort. It got Sky pundits talking about it and Carragher making some good points that echoed The Ashleyout.com mission statement to a national audience. That is pretty good for starters when you're dealing with a divided and apathetic supporter base. Credit to all involved. Much better to act, to try to do something, no matter what the outcome, instead of continuing to just drift along mindlessly and aimlessly, only stopping to vent online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 So given your obsession with this protest being visible on TV, presumably in your "we should attend a Sunderland game" scenario, the people going should wear black and white (to ensure visibility) and, in the process, get the living fuck kicked out of them? Would that constitute success in your eyes? Read the proposal. It's noting like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34507 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Read the proposal. Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) You're being pretty negative on the whole thing. 20k empty seats is a good first effort. It got Sky pundits talking about it and Carragher making some good points that echoed The Ashleyout.com mission statement to a national audience. That is pretty good for starters when you're dealing with a divided and apathetic supporter base. Credit to all involved. Much better to act, to try to do something, no matter what the outcome, instead of continuing to just drift along mindlessly and aimlessly, only stopping to vent online. Better to get it right first time, or at least do the best job that could have been done with the information and resources available (which I maintain wasn't this). When you already know you're fighting apathy, when you already know how infrequently you will get a national audience, then you really shouldn't be approaching this as if you have all that many practice runs available. I've just read on the match thread, posters were actually being given to people entering the ground. What's that about? The poster had on it a message 'strength in unity' - 52,000 empty seats etc. You would never in a million years get such a mixed message in a half way decent strategy meeting. This is what you get if you knock something together in two weeks, in the hope you're going to get another chance to get it right. It remains to be seen, all things being equal, if another boycott would have more success. I can't see why it would be. But I couldn't agree more on Carragher/message media angle, as I've already yesterday. Edited April 20, 2015 by Mako Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19826 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I don't get why you're moaning. Good luck to you if you reckon you could galvanise the fans to the extent they managed yesterday. If you can't, give them the credit they deserve. Whether you agree with what they set out to do, or with whether you think it was a success, give them credit for trying sonething,for getting us all talking about the cunt in charge of the club and for raising awareness on a national scale. Better than sitting your arse and hating online Edited April 20, 2015 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I don't get why you're moaning. Good luck to you if you reckon you could galvanise the fans to the extent they managed yesterday. If you can't, give them the credit they deserve. Whether you agree with what they set out to do, or with whether you think it was a success, give them credit for trying sonething,for getting us all talking about the cunt in charge of the club and for raising awareness on a national scale. Better than sitting your arse and hating online I obviously do think I could have done a better job, as I wouldn't have been saying so constantly. I'm moaning because I know for a fact that if the warnings I (and a hell of a lot of others) have been giving had been heeded, and if the advice about how to make boycotts a succesful part of AO campaigns had been listened to, then things would be looking better today. We wouldn't be scratching around trying to find the image with the least number of people in it to claim success, and wondering what's next or how to capitalise on the attention, that's for sure. I have been giving credit for getting the national attention - that's what I was on about with Carra. But it's small comfort compared to the stated goal of a boycott as a show of strength and unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19826 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I obviously do think I could have done a better job, as I wouldn't have been saying so constantly. I'm moaning because I know for a fact that if the warnings I (and a hell of a lot of others) have been giving had been heeded, and if the advice about how to make boycotts a succesful part of AO campaigns had been listened to, then things would be looking better today. We wouldn't be scratching around trying to find the image with the least number of people in it to claim success, and wondering what's next or how to capitalise on the attention, that's for sure. I have been giving credit for getting the national attention - that's what I was on about with Carra. But it's small comfort compared to the stated goal of a boycott as a show of strength and unity. What a load of bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 15,000 absent according to "the organisers" according to Talksport just now. Although they did say it was organised by True Faith, and that Ashley is American, so make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I obviously do think I could have done a better job, as I wouldn't have been saying so constantly. I'm moaning because I know for a fact that if the warnings I (and a hell of a lot of others) have been giving had been heeded, and if the advice about how to make boycotts a succesful part of AO campaigns had been listened to, then things would be looking better today. Musings from the Mohammed Shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Anyone remember CT denying anyone had walked out of the Cardiff game despite video footage of people streaming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34507 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I obviously do think I could have done a better job, as I wouldn't have been saying so constantly. And yet you've done absolutely fuck all and are contributing nothing but tedious pontification. Are you a metro inspector by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I obviously do think I could have done a better job, as I wouldn't have been saying so constantly. I'm moaning because I know for a fact that if the warnings I (and a hell of a lot of others) have been giving had been heeded, and if the advice about how to make boycotts a succesful part of AO campaigns had been listened to, then things would be looking better today. We wouldn't be scratching around trying to find the image with the least number of people in it to claim success, and wondering what's next or how to capitalise on the attention, that's for sure. I have been giving credit for getting the national attention - that's what I was on about with Carra. But it's small comfort compared to the stated goal of a boycott as a show of strength and unity. If you think you could a better job, why dont you get on with it instead of whingeing about it on a sparsely attended internet forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) And yet you've done absolutely fuck all and are contributing nothing but tedious pontification. Are you a metro inspector by any chance? I've done fuck all? What have you done that I haven't? How many proposals have you sent the campaign? How many times have you said something on here about whether action X would or would not work for reason Y, and been proven absolutely right? Edited April 20, 2015 by Mako Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you think you could a better job, why dont you get on with it instead of whingeing about it on a sparsely attended internet forum? Already have. I sent several campaign proposals to the bunker, which were well received. I can't force them to use them. And until being forced off for being a 'mackem troll', I was giving prescient advice on N-O about bocyotts. I can't force them to stop being a bunch of groupthink asshats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 No, theres a world of difference between actually organising action and emailing a bunch of proposals to the campaign which youve done absolutely nothing to help implement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Some people just like to criticise it seems. At least theyre having a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34507 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The very simple distinction here is that I'm not the one trying to poke holes in what others have done, whilst having done fuck all myself. You are the one telling us how much better you could do, whilst actually doing fuck all. I'm genuinely amazed I had to walk you through that. If you're that great, then tell us the plan, get the message out there, and I'm sure everyone will listen and be happy to follow your lead. A tip for you though: maybe cut down your writing by about 80%. I know you love what you've got to say and you probably can't believe this, but you're quite boring. If you're not going to do anything, then kindly shut the fuck up about how you know best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Oh fucking hell. Right, so, first it was you can't criticise AO.com or anyone else wanting Ashley Out unless you have your own ideas, now it's you can't criticise them unless you actually join AO.com and change it from the inside. Come the fuck off it man. Some people just don't like the fact I'm right, and will apparently say anything, no matter how daft, to attack me. It's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 and been proven absolutely right? I'd update your virus checker if I was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The very simple distinction here is that I'm not the one trying to poke holes in what others have done, whilst having done fuck all myself. You are the one telling us how much better you could do, whilst actually doing fuck all. I'm genuinely amazed I had to walk you through that. If you're that great, then tell us the plan, get the message out there, and I'm sure everyone will listen and be happy to follow your lead. A tip for you though: maybe cut down your writing by about 80%. I know you love what you've got to say and you probably can't believe this, but you're quite boring. If you're not going to do anything, then kindly shut the fuck up about how you know best. I told you to read my plan so you could tailor your criticism of it from an informed perspective, you said you couldn't be bothered. The distinction between you and me is blindingly obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I told you to read my plan so you could tailor your criticism of it from an informed perspective, you said you couldn't be bothered. The distinction between you and me is blindingly obvious. Yes, Gemmill isn't a windbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34507 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Your plan. [emoji38] I can only imagine how "well" your pontifications were "received" by the AO lot. Tickets please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makom 0 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Your plan. [emoji38] I can only imagine how "well" your pontifications were "received" by the AO lot. Tickets please! Imagining is all you'll ever do. Those on here who take the time to figure out who they're insulting and why, know exactly what the response was. Tedious fucks like you don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38779 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 WHEN WILL YOU READ THE PLAN????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34507 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Ooooo a mystery man. A fucking boring as fuck mystery man. How intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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