The Derby

[ewerk 26559]

As Wyki says, the ball has to be within playing distance, that has always been the case. It isn't always enforced but the rule is there and Colo would have known it. You don't make that challenge in the box.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

They werent contesting the ball though. The ball was a good few yards in front of them and not within distance of them.

But they were chasing it down shoulder to shoulder. Colo didn't come from behind and push him. Fair challenge

[Kid Dynamite 5968]

I'm more gutted this morning than yesterday. I've had mackems crowing at me already, they put in the worst first half performance I can remember in a Derby and were booed by their own fans. Giving the penalty and red is bad enough but to do it 20 seconds after we could have had 2 penalties makes it even harder to stomach

 

We have a good team atm that needs some defensive strengthening. We need to remember that and win our next 4 games. The mackems best player is on loan.

[Kid Dynamite 5968]

But they were chasing it down shoulder to shoulder. Colo didn't come from behind and push him. Fair challenge

There were 2 identical challenges 2nd half. Neither were given as fouls

[ewerk 26559]

But they were chasing it down shoulder to shoulder. Colo didn't come from behind and push him. Fair challenge

 

The ball wasn't within playing distance, it's as simply as that.

[wykikitoon 16799]

But they were chasing it down shoulder to shoulder. Colo didn't come from behind and push him. Fair challenge

 

So if the ball is say 20m in front of them and two players are chasing it down, its ok for one to shoulder the other out of the way? Errr no

[Dr Gloom 19879]

As Wyki says, the ball has to be within playing distance, that has always been the case. It isn't always enforced but the rule is there and Colo would have known it. You don't make that challenge in the box.

Show me a law that says shoulder to shoulder isn't allowed and I'll shut up.

[ewerk 26559]

Show me a law that says shoulder to shoulder isn't allowed and I'll shut up.

 

From the BBC live update page:

 

 

The rules say that charging is only legal if the player charging is "within playing distance of the ball" and "without using arms or elbows" Coloccini could not have reached the ball and used his arm therefore a foul on two counts. Whether it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity is less clear cut.

 

Qualified referee in Essex

[wykikitoon 16799]

There were 2 identical challenges 2nd half. Neither were given as fouls

Thats the problem with football and has been for much of the Premier League era. A total lack of consistancy. As soon as something happens in the box the ref's shit their pants.

 

However regards to awarding the pen it was IMO a pen. However, it wasn't a red as IMO Elliot would have had it covered and the play was going away from the goal. If the ball was in playing distance then it would have been a fair challenge as it was shoulder to shoulder.

[ewerk 26559]

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/laws-of-the-game/11-v-11/interpretation%20of%20laws%202015-16/law-12---interpretation-of-the-laws-of-the-game-2015-16.ashx

[Dr Gloom 19879]

 

So if the ball is say 20m in front of them and two players are chasing it down, its ok for one to shoulder the other out of the way? Errr no

They're both using their upper body to contest a ball. He hasn't pushed him. The Sunderland striker went over because it was in the box.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/laws-of-the-game/11-v-11/interpretation%20of%20laws%202015-16/law-12---interpretation-of-the-laws-of-the-game-2015-16.ashx

So nothing about shoulder to shoulder then. You clearly don't want me to shut up

[ewerk 26559]

It's not called shoulder to shoulder, it's called charging. It's not my responsibility to educate you on the rules of the game.

[wykikitoon 16799]

They're both using their upper body to contest a ball. He hasn't pushed him. The Sunderland striker went over because it was in the box.

 

I am using your argument in my hypothetical situation though. If the ball is 20m away would you call that a foul?

 

Yes he did go down and made a meal of it,but thats modern day football. It was still a foul as the ball wasnt within playing distance.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

 

From the BBC live update page:

 

Obviously it's all down to an individual ref's interpretation of the rules, which are ambiguous in many cases. I don't see how he's charged him, personally. I see two players running side by side to contest a ball. And one falls over because it's in the box.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

 

The ball wasn't within playing distance, it's as simply as that.

So the reason it's a foul is because the Sunderland player goes to ground?

[ewerk 26559]

There really is no grey area and no one who knows anything about the rules has suggested that it wasn't a foul according to the letter of the law. If you want to continue disagreeing with that then feel free.

[ewerk 26559]

So the reason it's a foul is because the Sunderland player goes to ground?

 

No. It's for the reason I mentioned above. If the player doesn't go to ground then the ref probably doesn't give it but that doesn't mean that it still wasn't a foul.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

It's not called shoulder to shoulder, it's called charging. It's not my responsibility to educate you on the rules of the game.

I don't see how colo has charged him, but it's like the interfering with play nonsense with offside - massively down to an individual ref and his interpretation of the rules which ends up in zero consistency in enforcing the rules - as we saw in this game when several other instances of similar incidents outside the box went unpunished.

[Dr Gloom 19879]

 

No. It's for the reason I mentioned above. If the player doesn't go to ground then the ref probably doesn't give it but that doesn't mean that it still wasn't a foul.

That's just nonsense isn't it and a sad reflection of what the game has become and how open the rules are to interpretation.

[wykikitoon 16799]

FWIW A lad who I work with plays 5-a-side against the ref in question and says he's a massive c@nt and not very well liked

[Kitman 2188]

Im fucking furious with colocinni cos he didnt need to heft into Fletcher. All he needed to do was stick with him and contest the space, Eliott had it covered, instead he gave Fletcher the heave ho and a perfect excuse to launch himself which he was looking for. I think it was a pelanty for sheer idiocy on the part of our so called captain.

 

I blame Coloccini for costing us that match. He's well past it and can fuck off now as far as Im concerned.

[Kid Dynamite 5968]

It's a good job Mbemba's come in for Willo or we'd be as good as relegated already

[Kitman 2188]

Just shows the short sightedness of Charnley and Ashley. Anyone could see Coloccini needed replacing in the summer. His legs have gone and his attitude is suspect yet hes our club captain. This apparently is good business.

[McFaul 35]

Everything about Sunderland is second class. They have players who are paedophiles. Mackems are genuinely as ugly as people from places like Hull and Middlesbrough. Their town is genuinely horrific. They have the highest teenage pregnancy ratio. They have a much lower life expectancy than almost all the places in Britain. 50% of them are fat and ginger and the amazing thing about this is if I was a mackem reading this from beside Grangetown Social Club, I'd be thinking, "ere it sewnds like this Mag 'as bean rewnd 'ere." Fuckin third world tramps.

 

I haven't even got near to describing generally what a mackem is and how its hard to believe a hovel like that exists in Western Europe. We could lose 10 in a row to them, at the end of the day they'll always be jealous mackems in general with a poor education level living in a town which is no different to the 1970s in most proper cities. THIRD WORLD.

 

The match was a complete fluke and 3-0 the other way probably wouldn't have done justice to how much better we were. Was like a FA Cup game where Man Utd go to a Conference team the first half, in terms of difference in class. A freakish horrific day, where the poor got lots of reward undeservedly.