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1 hour ago, Tom said:

“Work Will Set You Free” was a slogan used above the entrances to concentration camps. (As above)

Except it didn’t & it was merely a cruel trick specifically targeting Jewish inmates. The Germans, a largely agricultural nation at the turn of the century couldn’t understand how Jewish people accumulated wealth without sweating for it. 
 

So anti Jewish propaganda & conspiracy theories about them running the world & being in line with commies etc were easily digested by the German people, who had to work hard post WW1 but were still desperately poor, especially in light of the terms of the Versailles treaty. (Which they believed was overseen by Jews)

I visited Dachau memorial site just outside of Munich and the stories were horrific. 
 

For a work related “story” - German officers would regularly gather groups of Jewish prisoners and March them off to a corner of the site. 
 

They’d order them to start digging & obviously having seen the sign the Jewish lads worked their arses off and shifted tons of soil. At the end the Germans told them to fill the hole back in & it’s back to the barracks.
 

“work will set you free”

 

Thanks for this.

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Worth noting that the likes of George Floyd won't show up on that graph, he wasn't shot to death by police, he was suffocated by them and he isn't the only one. There's a reason "I can't breathe" has

Iirc the cases he’s bringing against these states won’t go to the Federal Supreme Court but those states Supreme Court. The most that would happen from that is perhaps a recount, as it’s complete fuck

They are simultaneously too ineffective to stop Trump when he succeeds and too powerful to overcome whenever he fails to deliver. Just like "antifa", which are both a terrifying scourge that law enfor

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36 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

i'll accept your apology when you're ready rayvin 

 

For what? Ignorance? I made myself open to learning something and accepted it, nothing to apologise for.

 

34 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

yeah, but hillary would have doubled down on syria...

 

Are you saying that the deaths of 4 nazis are comparable to the deaths of tens of thousands of brown people...? ;)

 

I can't actually remember far back enough as to my views on Clinton doubling down on Syria but for all you've thrown it up at me over the years I'm confident that it was far more of a Parky angle than it ever was my view. Having said that though, I daresay ewerk will find a choice quote in due course. I recall thinking Clinton was a bland continuation of the sorts of problems that led us here, and I stand by it. We didn't get here without a lot of groundwork being laid. I also remember saying Trump would be so ineffective in office that he would represent a better alternative than some alternate universe where Clinton won and the forces of darkness poured their energy into someone competent. We'll never know on that front, but I don't think I thought Trump ever represented a better option than Clinton save for that unknown.

 

I think this storming of the capitol is actually not that big a deal in practice, albeit significant in symbolism. We should make as much political capital as possible out of it though, so I'm not going to criticise anyone who goes on like it's a full on civil war. If it was a big deal something serious would have happened in response, and it does not appear that this will be the case.

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18 hours ago, ewerk said:

Still reckon they’re all the same?

18 hours ago, baby!

But here's a bonus just for you:

 

  

On 26/09/2016 at 15:18, Rayvin said:

 

True. I have similar concerns about both Trump and Clinton.

 

 

 

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I thought the one 18 hours ago was about Biden, my bad - I stand by the Titanic sentiment though, the ship is going down either way.

 

But if that other one is the best you've got then I'm pretty happy tbh.

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I’m only teasing Ray. I definitely remember clashing with you and Parky. He unashamedly defended Trump, was a fan even. You suggested, if I remember correctly, that a Hillary presidency was a more dangerous prospect than Trump in the White House. Has your view evolved, I wonder?

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31 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You still don't see any difference between Biden and Trump?!

 

I don't see any difference in the overall trajectory for Western civilisation as it refuses to learn the lessons from its mistakes.

 

There are plenty of personal and political differences between Biden and Trump and I'm delighted that Biden won because it gives us a 5 year extension ahead of the inevitable apocalypse ;)

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1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

I’m only teasing Ray. I definitely remember clashing with you and Parky. He unashamedly defended Trump, was a fan even. You suggested, if I remember correctly, that a Hillary presidency was a more dangerous prospect than Trump in the White House. Has your view evolved, I wonder?

 

That sounds about right - and yes, it has. At the time I saw Trump as a possible pressure release on nationalism. The notion that the right would see how godawful he was and realise that this kind of shit wasn't the answer. Clearly some Americans have indeed seen this given the record numbers of turnout to stop his re-election, but ultimately I can't claim to have been right in any sense, given that record numbers also voted for Trump. What I didn't predict was that fake news would only get worse, and that the polarisation of the two sides would become more important than what they were even fighting about (to the Trumpists at least). I mean, no thinking person should actually be capable of watching a Trump press conference and fully buy into what he's saying. It's so transparently fake that I don't believe it's possible to even be hoodwinked into it.

 

My fear was that we'd be at a point sort of like this, but after 4 years of Clinton during which time the right would organise and the threat would grow. It's impossible to know for sure but given that Trump clearly isn't the real enemy behind this, I don't think we should imagine that this will all settle down without him. Remember at the time we were seeing populists coming to power all over the place - it's not going to go away because Trump has been defeated.

 

But on balance, clearly nothing positive has come from him having won versus my alternative scenario, and so we may as well have had 4 years of stability and adult politics. Therefore yes, Clinton would have been a better outcome even with respect of my concerns at the time (and clearly in all the normal ways anyway). I will still argue she was the wrong candidate to choose though, for the Democrats.

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I'll add incidentally that there is a sudden groundswell of right wing, populist talking heads going on about setting up parties to "represent the working class". It's happening here and in the US, and it wouldn't surprise me if it spreads. The left has to be very careful to hold on to those working class voters or we're going to see a re-run of the 1930s IMO. Another decade of austerity, lockdowns that they don't understand the science behind, and relentless right wing shit about immigrants, coupled with rampant patriotism, and I think that's where we potentially end up.

 

So Biden, Clinton, Starmer, whoever - they need to get out ahead of this somehow. If I was Biden I'd be cracking down on social media like I was running a totalitarian state.

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49 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

That sounds about right - and yes, it has. At the time I saw Trump as a possible pressure release on nationalism. The notion that the right would see how godawful he was and realise that this kind of shit wasn't the answer. Clearly some Americans have indeed seen this given the record numbers of turnout to stop his re-election, but ultimately I can't claim to have been right in any sense, given that record numbers also voted for Trump. What I didn't predict was that fake news would only get worse, and that the polarisation of the two sides would become more important than what they were even fighting about (to the Trumpists at least). I mean, no thinking person should actually be capable of watching a Trump press conference and fully buy into what he's saying. It's so transparently fake that I don't believe it's possible to even be hoodwinked into it.

 

My fear was that we'd be at a point sort of like this, but after 4 years of Clinton during which time the right would organise and the threat would grow. It's impossible to know for sure but given that Trump clearly isn't the real enemy behind this, I don't think we should imagine that this will all settle down without him. Remember at the time we were seeing populists coming to power all over the place - it's not going to go away because Trump has been defeated.

 

But on balance, clearly nothing positive has come from him having won versus my alternative scenario, and so we may as well have had 4 years of stability and adult politics. Therefore yes, Clinton would have been a better outcome even with respect of my concerns at the time (and clearly in all the normal ways anyway). I will still argue she was the wrong candidate to choose though, for the Democrats.

i agree with all of that, particularly the bit about clinton - she was preferable to trump but she was the wrong pick at the wrong time.

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3 hours ago, Meenzer said:

 

I'm sorry, I know it's wrong but my brain immediately read that in a "So this is a story all about how..." tone

 

My first thoughts on seeing it were “if the Auschwitz, wear it”. 

See you in hell 

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I've just seen the video of the woman being shot. It did look entirely unnecessary but then again she was trying to climb over a barricade while an officer stood there pointing a gun at her so she had plenty of warning.

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There was someone on that Death to 2020 who made the good point that Trump is a moron (tbh the only reason he got there was because no one else was stupid enough to try his tactic) but what will be really worrying is when a Trump with a modicum of intelligence comes along. That’s when things get really dangerous.

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  • Andrew changed the title to President Biden

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