Gemmill 34441 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Craig said: Aye ... we lost against Everton, but not to worry lads, we had a better xG than than This. I bet you've read all Jeremy Clarkson's books. Which was your favourite? "If you'd just let me finish..." "For crying out loud" "Really?" Those book titles are a masterclass in tell me you're a cunt without telling me you're a cunt btw. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Craig said: Aye ... we lost against Everton, but not to worry lads, we had a better xG than them This. It shows that that 1-0 loss wasn't a sign of being worse than Everton, just that we were unlucky to lose that game. Which we were. It means that when some gobshite says "Wuh ganning doon!, Wuh cannit even beat Everton man!" You can cough a little ahem, adjust your monocle and explain over your copy of the FT just how fucking wrong and stupid that person is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I bet you've read all Jeremy Clarkson's books. Which was your favourite? "If you'd just let me finish..." "For crying out loud" "Really?" Those book titles are a masterclass in tell me you're a cunt without telling me you're a cunt btw. Absolutely 100% not - i can only assume you used xG to draw yet another meaningless and inaccurate conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Fish said: It shows that that 1-0 loss wasn't a sign of being worse than Everton, just that we were unlucky to lose that game. Which we were. It means that when some gobshite says "Wuh ganning doon!, Wuh cannit even beat Everton man!" You can cough a little ahem, adjust your monocle and explain over your copy of the FT just how fucking wrong and stupid that person is. You only need to use your eyes to show that Dave. It doesn't need some bullshit stat which is meaningless. I thought you had more about you to disprove CT's 'profit of doom' theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Craig said: Absolutely 100% not - i can only assume you used xG to draw yet another meaningless and inaccurate conclusion. I could just hear the Hamster laughing at your "But GUYS, we got the most xG!? How could we POSSIBLY not have won if you'd just let me finish for crying out loud really!?" comment. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 "Guys, if I need to know how a game's going, I look in the top left corner of the screen. Gives me everything I need." - Jeremy CRAIGson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) No you div, I watch the game with my eyes and make observations based on that. Not on some meaningless bullshit stat that is open for interpretation, nor just what the scoreline is. It's not that fucking hard to get your head around, once you've got it out of your spreadsheets FFS Edited March 23, 2022 by Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, Craig said: You only need to use your eyes to show that Dave. It doesn't need some bullshit stat which is meaningless. I thought you had more about you to disprove CT's 'profit of doom' theories. We were unlucky No we weren't A real Algonquin round table discussion there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Craig said: No you div, I watch the game with my eyes and make observations based on that. Not on some meaningless bullshit stat that is open for interpretation, nor just what the scoreline is. It's not that fucking hard to get your head around, once you've got it out of your spreadsheets FFS So instead you rely on gut. Without any evidence beyond that to back up your position? Seems, I dunno, a bit Brexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3603 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, The Fish said: So instead you rely on gut. Without any evidence beyond that to back up your position? Seems, I dunno, a bit Brexity. Now there is no call for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said: Now there is no call for that How else can we work out which Cambridge Tory cunt will run the country? Ohhh, I see your point. Edited March 23, 2022 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Fish said: So instead you rely on gut. Without any evidence beyond that to back up your position? Seems, I dunno, a bit Brexity. Yes, because i'm confident in my own analysis and don't feel the need to prove / disprove anything. Fundamentally what you're wanting to do is make something that is opinion-based, fact-based. If you want to sit there smugly tapping at your abacus going "See, my calculations prove beyond all doubt we were unlucky." then fill your load. It surely would only serves to piss you off further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, Craig said: Yes, because i'm confident in my own analysis and don't feel the need to prove / disprove anything. Fundamentally what you're wanting to do is make something that is opinion-based, fact-based. If you want to sit there smugly tapping at your abacus going "See, my calculations prove beyond all doubt we were unlucky." then fill your load. It surely would only serves to piss you off further. That's the thing though, it's not binary. You can have an opinion that's backed up with stats, or the opposing opinion backed up with different stats. It doesn't boil the conversation down to numbers. Stats aren't going to replace opinion. When I argued with essembee about Joelinton's laziness, I could lay out my case and subsequently back it up with irrefutable proof. I could have eventually worn him down with non-stat arguments, but stats hastened the conclusion. When pundits said Bruce was as good as Benitez, that the team was playing the same way and paradoxically playing more attacking football, did it not wind you up? When stats were able to prove that, in fact Bruce's football was terrible in almost every measure, did you not feel vindicated? That your own analysis was supported by other people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 I started off thinking this was banter but honestly I'm not sure anymore. It's a full blown qualitative vs quantitative argument. I love statistical analysis of, frankly, most things - but I also think you can just watch the game and come up with fairly similar conclusions from a qualitative assessment. Then again I've only got one prediction right so far, what do I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Craig, I feel like you've pulled a Putin here. You've backed yourself into a corner and you're coming up with increasingly stupid justifications. Do we need to provide you with an off-ramp? What would constitute success for you here? Or at least allow you to save face and admit that statistical analysis has merit, but allow you to continue to trust your feelies more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I started off thinking this was banter but honestly I'm not sure anymore. It's a full blown qualitative vs quantitative argument. I love statistical analysis of, frankly, most things - but I also think you can just watch the game and come up with fairly similar conclusions from a qualitative assessment. Then again I've only got one prediction right so far, what do I know. Ooooooh, look at me, I'm Rayvin and I understand EeeeEeeeverybody's point of view. Pathetic. Pick a side, you pervert. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30396 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Gemmill said: I bet you've read all Jeremy Clarkson's books. Which was your favourite? "If you'd just let me finish..." "For crying out loud" "Really?" Those book titles are a masterclass in tell me you're a cunt without telling me you're a cunt btw. The biggest cunt (long pause) in the world 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Fish said: Ooooooh, look at me, I'm Rayvin and I understand EeeeEeeeverybody's point of view. I do say that tbf. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, The Fish said: That's the thing though, it's not binary. You can have an opinion that's backed up with stats, or the opposing opinion backed up with different stats. It doesn't boil the conversation down to numbers. Stats aren't going to replace opinion. When I argued with essembee about Joelinton's laziness, I could lay out my case and subsequently back it up with irrefutable proof. I could have eventually worn him down with non-stat arguments, but stats hastened the conclusion. When pundits said Bruce was as good as Benitez, that the team was playing the same way and paradoxically playing more attacking football, did it not wind you up? When stats were able to prove that, in fact Bruce's football was terrible in almost every measure, did you not feel vindicated? That your own analysis was supported by other people? Honestly, no because it's their opinion which I don't have to agree with, nor disprove. Without trying to come across as facetious it boils down to whether you need to irrefutably clarify a conclusion in you mind or whether you can walk away from a discussion 'agreeing to disagree'. I'm most definitely in the latter group but also, as Rayvin points out I do like some level of statistical analysis - however I'm of the opinion that it should be there to support a viewpoint, not prove it. Then again I have 20 year old daughter who HAS to have the last word every time. Perhaps I've just become well versed in walking away from discussions that I know are never going to be cordially agreed and I can't be arsed to expend further energy on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Gemmill said: Craig, I feel like you've pulled a Putin here. You've backed yourself into a corner and you're coming up with increasingly stupid justifications. Do we need to provide you with an off-ramp? What would constitute success for you here? Or at least allow you to save face and admit that statistical analysis has merit, but allow you to continue to trust your feelies more. WTF? No, you don't. I've never disputed stats has its merits. I just don't agree you need xG to prove when the end result was justified or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Craig said: Honestly, no because it's their opinion which I don't have to agree with, nor disprove. Without trying to come across as facetious it boils down to whether you need to irrefutably clarify a conclusion in you mind or whether you can walk away from a discussion 'agreeing to disagree'. I'm most definitely in the latter group but also, as Rayvin points out I do like some level of statistical analysis - however I'm of the opinion that it should be there to support a viewpoint, not prove it. Then again I have 20 year old daughter who HAS to have the last word every time. Perhaps I've just become well versed in walking away from discussions that I know are never going to be cordially agreed and I can't be arsed to expend further energy on it Fucking made me spit my tea out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19822 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 there is value in lots of stats but xG is a load of football hipster, low block, double pivot shite 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Craig said: it boils down to whether you need to irrefutably clarify a conclusion in you mind or whether you can walk away from a discussion 'agreeing to disagree'. I'm most definitely in the latter group I think we've found your off-ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Fish said: Fucking made me spit my tea out. What did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3603 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Craig said: Then again I have 20 year old daughter who HAS to have the last word every time. Perhaps I've just become well versed in walking away from discussions that I know are never going to be cordially agreed and I can't be arsed to expend further energy on it I hear you there Sister. And let me tell you, they never change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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