Lewis Hall

[Dazzler 5574]

3 hours ago, LongTimeAdmirer said:

 

 

 

 

 

Pointless since Eddie doesnt rate him

 

Yet he's started him in the last two games when he's had a much more experienced (and far shitter) Dummett on the bench. I don't think it's a case of not rating him, it's a case of not wanting to throw him in at the deep end unless it's absolutely necessary.

[Dr Gloom 19849]

19 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

Yet he's started him in the last two games when he's had a much more experienced (and far shitter) Dummett on the bench. I don't think it's a case of not rating him, it's a case of not wanting to throw him in at the deep end unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

i think howe sees potential but hasn't rated what he's capable of so far. feels like he didn't think he was ready this season. i've no problem with that approach but hall has been criminally underused given the extent of the injury crisis, burn's poor form at left back etc. he eased gordon in last season in a similar way - the difference to me was gordon looked off the pace at times last season where hall hasn't looked out of place this season on the rare occasions he has played. it's a strange one 

[Dazzler 5574]

4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i think howe sees potential but hasn't rated what he's capable of so far. feels like he didn't think he was ready this season. i've no problem with that approach but hall has been criminally underused given the extent of the injury crisis, burn's poor form at left back etc. he eased gordon in last season in a similar way - the difference to me was gordon looked off the pace at times last season where hall hasn't looked out of place this season on the rare occasions he has played. it's a strange one 

He's just not cut out to do the tucking in and joining the centre backs like Burn is IMO - I think it's been a bit tactical rather than a lack of faith. Hall is similar to Trippier - not exactly fast, but offers a lot on the attack - to have Hall and Trippier in the same team could be suicide without a proper CDM in the team to protect the defence whilst both full backs are up high. 

 

When he's played he's had a pacey Tino at right back, and in recent games Krafth who's replaced Burn as the more defensive full back.

 

I just don't think Hall is great at the defensive elements of the game (probably as he's a centre mid converted to full back last season), and that's the real reason Howe hasn't played him as much - as neither he or Trippier are quick enough to make it work having both in the side at the same time (without moving to a back three or having a proper defensive midfielder in the side).

[Dr Gloom 19849]

1 minute ago, Dazzler said:

He's just not cut out to do the tucking in and joining the centre backs like Burn is IMO - I think it's been a bit tactical rather than a lack of faith. Hall is similar to Trippier - not exactly fast, but offers a lot on the attack - to have Hall and Trippier in the same team could be suicide without a proper CDM in the team to protect the defence whilst both full backs are up high. 

 

When he's played he's had a pacey Tino at right back, and in recent games Krafth who's replaced Burn as the more defensive full back.

 

I just don't think Hall is great at the defensive elements of the game (probably as he's a centre mid converted to full back last season), and that's the real reason Howe hasn't played him as much - as neither he or Trippier are quick enough to make it work having both in the side at the same time (without moving to a back three or having a proper defensive midfielder in the side).

 

isn't hall fast? he looked pretty quick to me, though i would look like usain bolt at left back after seeing dan burn play there 

[Dazzler 5574]

13 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

isn't hall fast? he looked pretty quick to me, though i would look like usain bolt at left back after seeing dan burn play there 

Nah, I wouldn't say so - quicker than Burn and Dummett but I wouldn't say fast from what I have seen of him. 

[PaddockLad 14646]

Hall wasn’t terrible v Fulham but the very experienced Alex Iwobi had a pretty good game against him. If as Dazzler said you’ve got Tripps pushing up on the right then Hall’s natural attacking game and inexperience in defence was probably a bit too much of a risk for EH

[Dr Gloom 19849]

defending with three at the back when tripper or livramento bomb on and burn tucks in has worked, but i don't think long term it's a style to persist with. none of the top teams play that way. 

 

the best sides generally play with two full backs who can join the attack and are capable of overlapping and providing width, such as robinson and TAA at liverpool

 

though we are also seeing this new trend where fullbacks invert and step into midfield, so fuck knows if that's how we'll set up in the future. 

 

what i would say is burn has been noticeably better this season after injuries forced him to move back to centre back. he looks at home in that position; he never looked like a natural left back. howe persisted with him because burn played in this lopsided system he developed and was part of the meanest defence in the league last season. but he kept him there long after it started to go tits up this season.

 

i don't think he would have given hall a run in the side if injuries hadn't forced his hand, but i'm glad he's finally getting a chance. 

 

Edited April 12 by Dr Gloom

[thebrokendoll 7118]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

isn't hall fast? he looked pretty quick to me, though i would look like usain bolt at left back after seeing dan burn play there 

 

tragic lack of capital letters in that post.

Edited April 12 by thebrokendoll

[Dr Gloom 19849]

1 minute ago, thebrokendoll said:

 

tragic lack of capital letters in that post.

 

IS THIS BETTER? 

[PaddockLad 14646]

22 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

defending with three at the back when tripper or livramento bomb on and burn tucks in has worked, but i don't think long term it's a style to persist with. none of the top teams play that way. 

 

the best sides generally play with two full backs who can join the attack and are capable of overlapping and providing width, such as robinson and TAA at liverpool

 

though we are also seeing this new trend where fullbacks invert and step into midfield, so fuck knows if that's how we'll set up in the future. 

 

what i would say is burn has been noticeably better this season after injuries forced him to move back to centre back. he looks at home in that position; he never looked like a natural left back. howe persisted with him because burn played in this lopsided system he developed and was part of the meanest defence in the league last season. but he kept him there long after it started to go tits up this season.

 

i don't think he would have given hall a run in the side if injuries hadn't forced his hand, but i'm glad he's finally getting a chance. 

 

Arsenal and Liverpool both regularly play with 3 and in Arsenals case 4 centre backs. Man City do too but they have the players to come into midfield to get an extra man in there. Arsenal the other night had to take Kiwior off and bring Zinchenko on to do this.  It’s fairly common at the top of the PL iyam  

[Dr Gloom 19849]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Arsenal and Liverpool both regularly play with 3 and in Arsenals case 4 centre backs. Man City do too but they have the players to come into midfield to get an extra man in there. Arsenal the other night had to take Kiwior off and bring Zinchenko on to do this.  It’s fairly common at the top of the PL iyam  

 

Ben White and Dan Burn at full back are two completely different propositions - both are capable of playing at centre back. it's pretty clear which one is less comfortable at full back

Edited April 12 by Dr Gloom

[PaddockLad 14646]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

Ben White and Dan Burn at full back are two completely different propositions - both are capable of playing at centre back. it's pretty clear which one is less comfortable at full back

That’s true but it doesn’t alter the facts. Hes a centre back by trade. And so is Kiwior. Who was taken off so a more skillful player could come on to try to influence the game offensively. It’s all variations on a theme. 

[Dr Gloom 19849]

3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

That’s true but it doesn’t alter the facts. Hes a centre back by trade. And so is Kiwior. Who was taken off so a more skillful player could come on to try to influence the game offensively. It’s all variations on a theme. 

 

i would argue that liverpool are at their best with robertson and TAA at full back. and man city looked better when they had cancelo at lb and walker at rb

 

arsenal, i haven't watched as much this season, but i'm not sure about the modern trend of playing centre backs at full back, or whether it'll continue.

 

would other top clubs around europe play a 6ft 7 bloke built like dan burn at full back? seems unlikely. it worked for us for a bit, but it's surely not the long term solution. i think if you asked dan burn he'd tell you he's much happier playing in the middle. 

[Gemmill 34709]

2 hours ago, wykikitoon said:

We forget how young they are.

 

Jimmy Savile's excuse. Must be a Yorkshire thing. 

[Dazzler 5574]

24 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i would argue that liverpool are at their best with robertson and TAA at full back. and man city looked better when they had cancelo at lb and walker at rb

 

arsenal, i haven't watched as much this season, but i'm not sure about the modern trend of playing centre backs at full back, or whether it'll continue.

 

would other top clubs around europe play a 6ft 7 bloke built like dan burn at full back? seems unlikely. it worked for us for a bit, but it's surely not the long term solution. i think if you asked dan burn he'd tell you he's much happier playing in the middle. 

Not defensively they aren't both are atrocious defenders, so getting hit on the break at pace with them two at full back I'd shit my pants.

[PaddockLad 14646]

12 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

Not defensively they aren't both are atrocious defenders, so getting hit on the break at pace with them two at full back I'd shit my pants.

This is it. Liverpool are a better defensive unit with Gomez somewhere in the back 4 but lose something attacking wise when TAA isn’t in the side. You can get at them when he tucks into midfield though. All about balance of pros snd cons . 
 

Burns problems arose when due to injuries he lost a protector in front of him. An upgrade would be great. Lloyd Kelly is a ball playing CB/LB. Let’s see 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Holden McGroin 4910]

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i think howe sees potential but hasn't rated what he's capable of so far. feels like he didn't think he was ready this season. i've no problem with that approach but hall has been criminally underused given the extent of the injury crisis, burn's poor form at left back etc. he eased gordon in last season in a similar way - the difference to me was gordon looked off the pace at times last season where hall hasn't looked out of place this season on the rare occasions he has played. it's a strange one 

He was shite when he got starts v Dortmund (a) and Bournemouth (a). Although you could say that about the whole team in those games.

[Dr Gloom 19849]

32 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

This is it. Liverpool are a better defensive unit with Gomez somewhere in the back 4 but lose something attacking wise when TAA isn’t in the side. You can get at them when he tucks into midfield though. All about balance of pros snd cons . 
 

Burns problems arose when due to injuries he lost a protector in front of him. An upgrade would be great. Lloyd Kelly is a ball playing CB/LB. Let’s see 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

his problems came behind him as well as in front of him. he has been consistently exposed at left back since dubs replaced pope. there have been too many games this season where burn's lack of pace has been horribly exploited by speedy wingers because dubs is rooted to his box and pope wasn't sweeping up behind him. i don't want to see burn sprinting back towards his own goal again this season. he has to stay at centre back

[Dr Gloom 19849]

35 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

He was shite when he got starts v Dortmund (a) and Bournemouth (a). Although you could say that about the whole team in those games.

 

i think he has been harshly hooked at half time a couple of times this season - were they those games? i can't remember. i don't recall him being any worse than anyone else in those games, like you say. 

[PaddockLad 14646]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

his problems came behind him as well as in front of him. he has been consistently exposed at left back since dubs replaced pope. there have been too many games this season where burn's lack of pace has been horribly exploited by speedy wingers because dubs is rooted to his box and pope wasn't sweeping up behind him. i don't want to see burn sprinting back towards his own goal again this season. he has to stay at centre back

 This is you when Dummett starts at centre back and Burn at left back tomorrow  

 

[Holden McGroin 4910]

Dummett has played well at CB this season against both Manchester clubs. They have pace to burn down the wings so whoever is playing fullback is going to have a tough afternoon.

[Dr Gloom 19849]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

 This is you when Dummett starts at centre back and Burn at left back tomorrow  

 

burn or dummett starting at left back

 

 

[aimaad22 3472]

I'm hopefull we'll see Hall become a very good player here once Howe is done with him. He's got great attributes, looks comfortable on the ball. He's not been great defensively when he's played, he does daft things sometimes and you can see that's why Eddie thinks he's not ready yet. But I agree that the reason he's not played more this season is tactical as has been described above. Not that we should be directly comparing ourselves to the top 4 at this stage, but Arsenal, Liverpool and City do drop to 3 at the back when the full backs bomb on. They may not be 3 CBs per say on the team sheet, but someone will cover. In fact the modern DM/CB/LB hybrids are tailor made for this. Stones, Akanji, Gvardiol. Jorginho starts for Arsenal at times just for this imo and Rice does it to a lesser extent too. 

 

 

 

Edited April 12 by aimaad22

[Holden McGroin 4910]

2 hours ago, aimaad22 said:

I'm hopefull we'll see Hall become a very good player here once Howe is done with him. He's got great attributes, looks comfortable on the ball. He's not been great defensively when he's played, he does daft things sometimes and you can see that's why Eddie thinks he's not ready yet. But I agree that the reason he's not played more this season is tactical as has been described above. Not that we should be directly comparing ourselves to the top 4 at this stage, but Arsenal, Liverpool and City do drop to 3 at the back when the full backs bomb on. They may not be 3 CBs per say on the team sheet, but someone will cover. In fact the modern DM/CB/LB hybrids are tailor made for this. Stones, Akanji, Gvardiol. Jorginho starts for Arsenal at times just for this imo and Rice does it to a lesser extent too. 

 

 

 

yeah. You need a much better technical midifeld than ours to do that. We give the ball away too much at the moment. That might change with a midfield of Big Joe/Bruno/Tonali and a worldie at right wing. 

[aimaad22 3472]

Aye by all accounts Tonali was supposed to be box to box with tons of energy. Certainly saw evidence of it the little he did play. Surprisingly pacey too. 

 

Wonder what sort of state he'll be in after a year of not playing.