AgentAxeman

my favourite album of the last decade is probably The New Black by Strapping Young Lad. probably not an album on most peoples ipod playlist i'll grant you, but i like it....

i think so, but you'd have an excellent chance of champs league money every year!!

Do toffee apples count as part of your 5 a day? random enough for ya?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8363726.stm The Strokes??? ffs!! mind you, none of those artists/albums are quite my cup of tea.

close 3rd, but only for the 1st season and only because rangers and celtics players know the league. after the initial season tho, i would agree that we would have an excellent chance of winning it.

Hiccy Burpday!!

this

i think that question has been taken out of context as it was rhetorical in nature. it was a reply to the statement "it is not normal government policy to admit to its mistakes" cant remember who the quote was from. Renton i think??

I wasn't, you'd already annswered that. So he can't win. No apology - he's scum. Apology - he's using a situation for political gain. We've apologised to many people and many nations for many misdeeds carried out going back centuries. All while perpetuating further misdeeds, as any moderately powerful nation does from time to time, and will do in future. "So he can't win. No apology - he's scum. Apology - he's using a situation for political gain. We've apologised to many people and many nations for many misdeeds carried out going back centuries." of course he cant win. he's a politician. and i never called him scum. in fact i do believe my answer was probably and not as you would have it definitely! and you're correct. this government has apologised to many peoples and nations for its poor performance in the past and also, the present. in fact almost everyone bar the UK.

Honestly man, they just cant resist!!

they have, it's called expediency!!

I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! I think my work is done. You've gone from saying the article was "spot on" and he shouldn't apologise for this any more than he should apologise for pulling the wings off an insect when he was wee, to agreeing that an apology is entirely justified from Gordo himself. I don't see the sequence of his apologies as important, given these people have been waiting 22 years for this one. slight fudging of the dialogue there Happy. what i was asking in that instance is where do the apologies stop? i dont think i ever said the apology was unwarranted?? as to saying the apology is justified, fair enough, it is, but again, In my personal opinion, I believe he should own up to his own shortcomings/mistake, whatever you wish to call it, before he has a pop at someone else's. As Alex says. Given that he believes in the policies of his government and doesn't believe an apology is deserved for them. And given that he isn't going to perform a complete policy overhaul 8 months before a general election to satisfy the portion of the electorate that disagree, are you saying he should refuse to apologise for this? Would you congratulate him on his stance then? not quite certain what you're asking here but if i understand correctly, and you're asking me if he should apologise to these kids then the answer is yes. that is not the issue i'm trying to get across here. would i congratulate him on his stance for refusing? quite honestly i don't know. probably not. on the other hand, if it is normal government policy NOT to apologise for its mistakes then why are we apologising for this? and don't say its a different government cos its not. parties and policy change but His/Her Majesty's Government doesnt.

probably not quite so vociferously, but i would like to believe that i would understand the deliberacy of it, in that it deflects attention away from the here and now and the very real issues which face us all, today, in this time! however, you could use that argument against anyone who posts an article from ANY paper/website Aye, but you seem to swallow anything the Mail says at face value which is why I asked. what, the same as a lot of people swallow anything the Guardian says? or the telegraph? or the sun? etc. etc.

probably not quite so vociferously, but i would like to believe that i would understand the deliberacy of it, in that it deflects attention away from the here and now and the very real issues which face us all, today, in this time! however, you could use that argument against anyone who posts an article from ANY paper/website

I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! I think my work is done. You've gone from saying the article was "spot on" and he shouldn't apologise for this any more than he should apologise for pulling the wings off an insect when he was wee, to agreeing that an apology is entirely justified from Gordo himself. I don't see the sequence of his apologies as important, given these people have been waiting 22 years for this one. slight fudging of the dialogue there Happy. what i was asking in that instance is where do the apologies stop? i dont think i ever said the apology was unwarranted?? as to saying the apology is justified, fair enough, it is, but again, In my personal opinion, I believe he should own up to his own shortcomings/mistake, whatever you wish to call it, before he has a pop at someone else's.

I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!!

Sounds like you've had a tough decade Axeman, sorry to hear that. Like most people though I personally have never been more prosperous, at least in a material sense. Without regurgitating the shite that Phillips has stated, what do you think Brown owes you an apology for? au contraire, this decade has been very good to me my heroin addicted friend . I've been married, made money on my house, and become a father twice! I'm in a far better position today than i was 10 yrs ago both materially, physically and spiritually. I dont believe Brown owes ME any apology whatsoever. however, i would hope that he was man enough to admit his own mistakes BEFORE he go's and blames someone else for their mistakes.

maybe you couldnt if they were your misdeeds, however, wtf has Gordon Brown got to do with it? gesture politics of the highest order imo!! Well you edited out the point I made about apologising for deeds that weren't my fault too. Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister of the nation that swept their disadvantaged citizens under the carpet as recently as 40 years ago. Of course it's a gesture...but a valuable one. It was wrong. I had no idea it had happened and recognition of the fact it did from the highest authority will give the victims a significant level of closure. Why should their ill treatment go unobserved? How will apologising hurt us as a nation? I didnt say it would hurt us as a nation? as you say, you have no idea what happened quite simply because it was before your (and mine) time. this makes its possible to distort the facts of what happened (if it was politically advantageous to do so). completely agree it was wrong but i already knew it had happened and i dont need any 'recognition' from the highest authority to know that it was a terrible misdeed. as i said earlier, gesture politics imo. as if he has nowt better to apologise for............... If apologising does no harm, and means a great deal to the many people affected, what's your problem with it? I fail to see any humane reason to object. That woeful article doesn't priovide any either. Something being before my time is no reason I shouldn't know about it. It disgusts me that if my parents had been only slightly more poor, they could have been shipped off to be abused and used as cheap labour. completley agree, but at the risk of repeating myself, he has more up to date actions to apologise for which in all probability, affect more people. once again, distraction & gesture politics imo He's not going to apologise for his actions and those of his government while enacting them is he though. I agree he has lots of his own actions to apologise for. I don't see how this entirely warranted apology distracts us from that different subject though. Even if it does, your problem seems to be different to Philips' anyway. She seems to think the apology proves Gordo hates Britain. i'm not certain if thats meant to be tongue in cheek?? by phillips i mean, not you happy. i dont know phillips but she seems like a bit of a harridan so it wouldnt surprise me if thats what she really thinks. and youre spot on about the fact he wont apologise for his own actions when its so much easier to apologise for others and then guess what? no blame is then attached to wor Gordo! ergo. distraction politics and he (Gordo, as we seem to be calling him now) will then be able to milk the event thus proving what a fine upstanding statesman he is. ergo. gesture politics I don't see how apolgising for this removes any blame whatsoever for anything else. It comes across like you're saying he should either resolve EVERY issue currently on his desk in one fell swoop or he shouldn't bother with any, because anything he gets right is just a political manoeuvre to mask other misdeeds. I never said it did atone for any other misdeed. all i said was i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes and not someone elses 1st. as for the 2nd paragraph, i'm fairly certain you've misunderstood my motive. IF he (Gordo) had performed miracles whilst in office i would praise the man to high heaven. however, imo, i dont believe he has come anywhere near this lofty goal. I am not a Labour supporter nor am i a Labour hater but imo, and in this particular instance, i think he is simply trying to use this very real tradegy to mask other issues that he has at home and at this present time. not for 1 minute have i ever said that the apology to these children isnt deserved because quite simply it is. personally, i believe you have an issue with the article i posted because of the writer and the paper involved.

maybe you couldnt if they were your misdeeds, however, wtf has Gordon Brown got to do with it? gesture politics of the highest order imo!! Well you edited out the point I made about apologising for deeds that weren't my fault too. Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister of the nation that swept their disadvantaged citizens under the carpet as recently as 40 years ago. Of course it's a gesture...but a valuable one. It was wrong. I had no idea it had happened and recognition of the fact it did from the highest authority will give the victims a significant level of closure. Why should their ill treatment go unobserved? How will apologising hurt us as a nation? I didnt say it would hurt us as a nation? as you say, you have no idea what happened quite simply because it was before your (and mine) time. this makes its possible to distort the facts of what happened (if it was politically advantageous to do so). completely agree it was wrong but i already knew it had happened and i dont need any 'recognition' from the highest authority to know that it was a terrible misdeed. as i said earlier, gesture politics imo. as if he has nowt better to apologise for............... If apologising does no harm, and means a great deal to the many people affected, what's your problem with it? I fail to see any humane reason to object. That woeful article doesn't priovide any either. Something being before my time is no reason I shouldn't know about it. It disgusts me that if my parents had been only slightly more poor, they could have been shipped off to be abused and used as cheap labour. completley agree, but at the risk of repeating myself, he has more up to date actions to apologise for which in all probability, affect more people. once again, distraction & gesture politics imo He's not going to apologise for his actions and those of his government while enacting them is he though. I agree he has lots of his own actions to apologise for. I don't see how this entirely warranted apology distracts us from that different subject though. Even if it does, your problem seems to be different to Philips' anyway. She seems to think the apology proves Gordo hates Britain. i'm not certain if thats meant to be tongue in cheek?? by phillips i mean, not you happy. i dont know phillips but she seems like a bit of a harridan so it wouldnt surprise me if thats what she really thinks. and youre spot on about the fact he wont apologise for his own actions when its so much easier to apologise for others and then guess what? no blame is then attached to wor Gordo! ergo. distraction politics and he (Gordo, as we seem to be calling him now) will then be able to milk the event thus proving what a fine upstanding statesman he is. ergo. gesture politics

maybe you couldnt if they were your misdeeds, however, wtf has Gordon Brown got to do with it? gesture politics of the highest order imo!! Well you edited out the point I made about apologising for deeds that weren't my fault too. Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister of the nation that swept their disadvantaged citizens under the carpet as recently as 40 years ago. Of course it's a gesture...but a valuable one. It was wrong. I had no idea it had happened and recognition of the fact it did from the highest authority will give the victims a significant level of closure. Why should their ill treatment go unobserved? How will apologising hurt us as a nation? I didnt say it would hurt us as a nation? as you say, you have no idea what happened quite simply because it was before your (and mine) time. this makes its possible to distort the facts of what happened (if it was politically advantageous to do so). completely agree it was wrong but i already knew it had happened and i dont need any 'recognition' from the highest authority to know that it was a terrible misdeed. as i said earlier, gesture politics imo. as if he has nowt better to apologise for............... If apologising does no harm, and means a great deal to the many people affected, what's your problem with it? I fail to see any humane reason to object. That woeful article doesn't priovide any either. Something being before my time is no reason I shouldn't know about it. It disgusts me that if my parents had been only slightly more poor, they could have been shipped off to be abused and used as cheap labour. completley agree, but at the risk of repeating myself, he has more up to date actions to apologise for which in all probability, affect more people. once again, distraction & gesture politics imo

Maybe Melanie Phillips does spout shite, but i reckon with the Brown article she got it spot on! stop trying to distract from the truth of the article by quoting the authors previous. So you agree with her that by apologising Gordon Brown has proved himself to be ashamed of the country itself? That it amounts to treachery and he should apologise for THAT! Ridiculous. I'd be ashamed of the country if my leaders couldn't recognise we have done some shameful things in the past....it would be even better if he could recognise the shameful things we continue to do. so whats the cutoff point then? when does Gordon start apologising for pulling the wings off flies as a bairn? all i'm saying is he needs to apologise for his own misdeeds before he starts trying to distract us away from those facts by apologising for something that was instituted before he was born. distraction AND gesture politics imo

maybe you couldnt if they were your misdeeds, however, wtf has Gordon Brown got to do with it? gesture politics of the highest order imo!! Well you edited out the point I made about apologising for deeds that weren't my fault too. Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister of the nation that swept their disadvantaged citizens under the carpet as recently as 40 years ago. Of course it's a gesture...but a valuable one. It was wrong. I had no idea it had happened and recognition of the fact it did from the highest authority will give the victims a significant level of closure. Why should their ill treatment go unobserved? How will apologising hurt us as a nation? I didnt say it would hurt us as a nation? as you say, you have no idea what happened quite simply because it was before your (and mine) time. this makes its possible to distort the facts of what happened (if it was politically advantageous to do so). completely agree it was wrong but i already knew it had happened and i dont need any 'recognition' from the highest authority to know that it was a terrible misdeed. as i said earlier, gesture politics imo. as if he has nowt better to apologise for...............

Maybe Melanie Phillips does spout shite, but i reckon with the Brown article she got it spot on! stop trying to distract from the truth of the article by quoting the authors previous.

maybe you couldnt if they were your misdeeds, however, wtf has Gordon Brown got to do with it? gesture politics of the highest order imo!!