Rayvin

I think respectfully disagreeing is only possible when everyone is arguing honestly. If someone is taking disingenuous or obviously poorly informed viewpoints, and treats facts that counter these views as personal attacks, then there's really no room for respectful disagreement. I would still, to this day, have a respectful conversation with a leave voter if they were prepared to engage on it properly. I would also contend that your average leave voter has more of an emotional attachment to leaving, rather than a rational one. Whereas you average remain voter is the other way around. Hard to join that really.

I have to say mate, I'm further than I've ever been from caring about political unity or finding common ground with people on the other side of the debate in this country. I'm still fucking pissed about it. I don't see why I should be quiet about that just to make some leave voters feel like we're all unified. I have never felt less British than I do right now, and I'm struggling to see what in their 'vision of the country' I would even want to unify on. Live and let burn is pretty much where I am at the minute

So the moderate left and the centre right. All I'm saying is that if you're going through the exploration into this stuff through the online stuff - having been there myself - it's a gateway to some pretty fucking wild shit. And I think a lot of the people espousing it are dishonest actors. I can understand the desire for unity, but why should that come from our side?

But who cares about that? You're talking as if we all want to reconcile with these people and make them see the light or something. That ship fucking sailed mate, I don't care what they think anymore - I'm just going to slate them as a form of catharsis. This is what they won. It's about the only thing they won in fact - one continuous, merciless bout of ridicule that is regenerated every time something new and terrible about Brexit is revealed. Given the age of many of them, they won't hear the end of it until they're six feet under. As for this: You're being pulled to the right on healthcare, economics, social issues and climate change because some people are still very upset about something that has negatively impacted many of these areas? Logically that makes no sense at all, so I'm going to assume it's more of an emotional, feeling based thing - i.e. you identify more with the right wingers defending the 'great British people' from the claims that they're a pack of fucking muppets. You're more than free to do that and I'll guess that there's a fair amount of online red pilling going on in that one as well given your recent talking points. But to be clear, you're going to throw in with people who bitch and moan constantly about Muslims, women, Marxists ffs, 'white genocide', the end of Western civilisation, how things were better in the 50s, how the Empire was a good thing, and how an elite cabal of supposedly left wing billionaires (give me a fucking break man, seriously) is secretly infecting everyone with 5G receptive nanobots through a vaccine which will act as a form of mindcontrol. On the Remain front, although Renton has said it, the issue isn't so much that we voted out and left. It's that we voted out based on LIES, and the entire exercise was hijacked by the actual hard right of the Tory party, who traitorously sold out the country and its best interests in pursuit of their own gain. Up your T levels a bit and think for yourself man, stop throwing in with people who are just trying to make you feel better about a shit situation they've created.

I've started to think that the battle over Brexit - leaving, the consequences of leaving, and the eventual rejoining - will be the politically defining issue for quite possibly multiple generations. All to prevent schism within the Tory party. A complete and utter waste of everyone's time.

Supports the notion of the progressive alliance, as the article notes. Seems like Labour voters played that very well indeed. So they are beatable, we just need to behave like fucking adults.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/16/keir-starmer-picks-stonger-together-slogan-used-by-hillary-clinton-to-rebrand Starmer using Clinton's campaign slogan as part of a rebrand. Don't think he understands how toxic she became in the culture war but we'll see I suppose. They need to do something, I suppose.

The lockdown and protective measures. It just feels to me like there's a shift in people's mentality on this based on some of the conversations I'm seeing/having. I think the view was that once we were vaccinated we were out of the woods, and yet it now looks like we'll probably lose a lot of the summer to this as well. I think we're fine where we are, mostly I am just concerned that if it transpires that we will need another proper lockdown, there'll be widespread public resistance to it. It's just anecdotal from my view mind, so who knows. Certainly frustration with Johnson seems to be growing even amongst people who've traditionally backed him.

While Quiff is clearly on the wind up here, it is noteworthy that more and more 'reasonable' people are running out of patience with this now. I had my first vaccination yesterday which was something of a relief given that I seem to be really behind everyone else on that front (Scotland doesn't appear to let you force the issue, you just wait for an invite). Am looking forward to the second one so that I'll be as well defended as possible, but I'll go on wearing masks and so on as long as we're told to. Really don't see the point in taking risks given what a total mess this has been.

@Dr Gloom What is your view of GBNews and Andrew Neil's defection to it? How is it being received around the BBC? Is there concern?

Haven't followed this for a bit now - how is it taking off again when so many people are vaccinated? Is it taking off with young people or something?

Preparing for the game on Friday no doubt

That video of them hounding the reporter. Just what the fuck.. what do they even think they're going to get out of him, it's literally nothing more than mob driven bullying. Not a single one of those cunts would be man enough to go at him in the way they are if they were on their own. Seriously what is going on in this country, it's starting to feel as though decent people are in a minority. Maybe the right wing lunatics really were a "silent majority".

I think the anger is probably fair enough, combined with some sort of 'bad day' I guess, but the repeated reference to what he clearly sees as 'non-jobs' or people being unemployed is not a good look.

The DM comment section is accusing the DM itself of being a Marxist rag in league 'the establishment' as it isn't claiming that the cheers for BLM were faked by a cabal including UEFA, the BBC and George Soros.

There are claims being made that the booing for BLM was drowned out by canned applause played over the tannoy. I suppose those doing the booing don't like the idea that some real English people think that they're a disgrace.

So that's basically us through then.

At least the only man he had to beat there was the keeper Deserved it for effort tbf, the only player really trying to make anything happen.

Decent 10 mins at the start, ran out of steam. Unlucky on the Foden chance but really the issue for both teams IMO is a total lack of end product. Sterling for all he seems to panic people just has no plan beyond beating his man, it seems like.

I see Howay has already answered my question.

What do we think then, are England going to be smashed here? I've got a mate who is Croatian so I'm mentally preparing myself for the inevitable post-match onslaught.

If it was renamed Newcastle and Sunderland airport, it would make both cities, and the region in general, look small time as fuck.

What the fuck is that... it looks like something out of LOTR.

And here we go again.

I don't personally believe that, I have to say I think I did once, but I now believe that the correct saying is 'evil triumphs'. Too cynical these days I guess.