Rayvin

I suppose - it's just that the top 5 are all in perfect order. I guess that sort of supports the idea that the top clubs have managed a lot of the unpredictability out of the game. You'd probably need a wider sample of leagues to see how well it stacks up though, could be random.

To be fair mate, it's rarely ever personal. This is just the tone of the forum. You get used to it, but you need to be thick skinned. Plus everyone's a bit higher strung than normal at the moment it seems.

It's a lot more accurate with the top teams than the bottom ones. Still impressive though.

This is it for me. You're right in a sense, but if Ashley is losing money down in the Championship he might decide to sell cheap and cut his losses.

That is the single most disturbing thing I've ever seen on here, and that's really saying something.

I can see what you're saying but there's something or a herd mentality to gambling don't you think? Which isn't hugely rational. Also, the evidence I've seen is that most fans of other clubs are hugely ignorant to any specific information about ours. It would be like if you looked at the stock market and bought shares in a company based on the wider market trend for its industry, without looking at the actual specifics of the company you're investing in. Some sense there, granted, as the industry might be reporting strong performance - but by no means an accurate way of measuring the company in question. That's what outside fans are doing with our club. This metaphor might be a bit laboured, but still. I think it's been debated quite well on here. I looked at all of it as objectively as I felt I could, took a large lead from the form table, an entirely non-subjective performance measure (albeit you can argue that it depends on the teams you're playing), looked at the disharmony within the team, the options we had available for the game, and felt that we'd lose. I wasn't caught up in some wild negative spin about the club. I'm totally at peace with relegation because I think it's the only way to make Ashley think twice about what he's doing. Therefore, I don't think it was an emotive decision for me to come to (that we'd lose). This is all pretty irrelevant I guess - as I said, I understand the thinking that we'd at least get a draw. I disagree with the idea that it was the objectively likely result, but it's all immaterial really.

I thought after their second goal they did very little of consequence, and that we spent 20 minutes trying to mount an effective attack before finally putting on some pressure at the end out of sheer desperation. So maybe they had a 10 minute period I guess. Agree on the 1-0 wins problem. To be honest, I can see where you're coming from on the 1-1 draw, I would have gone for that once upon a time. It's just that from a club management point of view now, you can clearly see that everything has gone to shit.

I think this has been covered before, but betting patterns just reflect popular opinion don't they? 95% of the football community in this country would likely have expected us to put in a decent performance as we're playing for our skins and QPR are down. I understand that view for the impartial observer. It makes no sense when you look at actual form and the utter shambles that this club has been over the past few weeks though. The same people will likely think we'll beat West Ham next week. Do you think that's likely? I don't. I think we'll have our collective heads caved in.

Fair enough, it was always possible that we'd suddenly let class show through. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that us getting any result other than a defeat here was 'likely' They barely put up a fight at all - they were every bit as terrible as normal. We are just that bad at the moment that it didn't matter.

Indeed

Additional context: Carver had a public falling out with one of our players, the fans are turning on the club, we're riven with injuries, we tried to replace Carver and failed, he's lost the dressing room altogether and most importantly, none of the evidence from the previous games we'd played in the past few weeks suggested that we had any fight in us whatsoever. That said, none of this context makes us the worst team in the league. What makes us the worst team in the league is our recent form.

The team we are + Carver is considerably worse than the team we were + Pardew. The team we are + Carver is the worst team in the league. We should expect to lose to everybody in our current form. Not that I think a point was 'head in the clouds optimism' in truth, just not the most likely result if looked at objectively.

That sounds totally standard for about every politician I've ever seen. Right down to immigration.

Had Carver been here all season, do you think they still would be?

Not the form table. That says we're categorically the worst team in the league; even before this defeat.

We are the worst team in the league... http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html

All of this said mind, I still don't begrudge you having your opinion, especially not one that I shared a few weeks back. It's only MT who can rightly claim to have seen this coming. All you've done is cling to hope longer than anyone else - and you may still be right in the end. By the most slender of margins imaginable.

Yeah but it's the more recent weeks thing that has been ours...

Up until very recently, I'd be inclined to agree that yeah, it was always extremely unlikely, from an outsider looking in - even to Ashley apparently - that it'd come to this. But in recent weeks you've been stating that we're going to pick up points etc, when our form has been the worst in the league by far. You've mentioned QPR's form there. It's been better than ours though, is the thing. We are, objectively, the worst team in the entire division. Also, it's not like people have been raving on here and slitting wrists etc - there's been frustration, but as you'll see in the 'should we go down' thread, quite a lot of people actually want us relegated. I can totally see that you've tried to look at this rationally - problem is, this club is nowhere near fucking rational.

This. It's this that I can't take any more. Going down is the only way out of this - a bitter pill, and even then it may not be enough, but there's absolutely no way out while we're in this division. We'll have to stay here while other fans lecture us about 'knowing our place' when we come in 10th-14th for the 27th consecutive season, and I just cannot accept that it's worth supporting a team that aspires to nothing more than that. Championship, maybe even further, whatever it takes. The sooner he's out, the sooner we can actually start to like the club again. And we would get back one day, we're big enough.

Yep, but for me, the main reason for getting rid of Pardew was the fact that he was enabling Ashley to continue with this nightmare. Now he's gone, Ashley is having to live or die by his decisions - and it may end up costing him enough to finally shunt him out. I think I made a post to this respect months back...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to guiltily say yes, I think at this point I'd prefer us to be relegated in order to avoid this shit next year, and also in order to bring about the prospect of something - anything - positive happening to the club. I've had enough years in midtable obscurity now to know that it isn't going to amount to anything.

Does CT actually come on here to talk about football at all any more, or are we just a political discussion medium for him now? I don't think he's even posting in the food thread these days, not that I really keep up with it.

We have nothing to do with the relegation battle, mind. Lots to do with relegation, absolutely nothing to do with battle. We're just cruising steadily on towards oblivion while the others are fighting and raging around us. It is, as Gloom has put it, a Zen like acceptance.