Rayvin

Well, they're sticking to what they said they were going to do. Nothing that helps the rot in any significant way. Hard to fault them for sticking to what they said.

I'd have taken an LD government over this one tbh. Fair enough anyway, though I don't agree at all.

Fair enough but it's still not my point. My point is, did Labour have to be so timid or do you think in hindsight that they could have been far bolder?

None of you answered my question. I didn't ask you how deliverable or appropriate that manifesto was, or if it would have been a good thing. I asked you if Labour could have won on it. The point of the question being to outline that Labour were being far, far too careful to appease the right compared to what they could actually have done. So I'm asking again, looking back at it now, did they really need to be as careful as they were? It's a weird argument this tbh. We have one group who are "unhelpful, naive and belligerent" arguing with another group who act like they've been traumatised into giving up their values, and will justify all sorts of shit as long as their team won.

I think I would ask all the pragmatists on here something along the lines of... do you think Starmer would have lost if he'd come out with Jeremy Corbyn's manifesto minus the personal baggage and antisemitism stuff? I don't think he would have. I don't for a second think he would have. I think Labour hugely underplayed their hand this election - maybe that makes them more sustainable over time but honestly I think we're going to start struggling to see daylight between them and Cameron's Tories, longer term. And if that is the case, what is even the point.

Worth noting that the Tories had a fair stint of ideological purity mind you. If the Tories can do it, and Labour can't, then we are only ever going to move rightwards. I think we're appeasing too much personally, we're selling out truth and fairness for cheap votes. Maybe it does have to be that way but frankly I don't see the point in a country that operates like that. It means it's already over for the UK. A slow motion car crash into increasing shitness. I know that's not news to anyone here though tbf.

Has to be some sort of record, surely

Was speaking to my dad about this because he technically qualified previously despite the fact he still worked on a part time basis. Apparently he got £500 last year which he gave to a fuel poverty charity because he thought it was immoral to keep it. The man earns comfortably £40k a year working part time and his wife is full time employed still. He owns his own home which is paid off. Why in fuck would he ever need winter fuel allowance? I appreciate he's not typical by a long stretch of everyone but ffs. It's actually an insult to all younger generations that this had gone on so long.

No one in the Tory party has any right to call out anyone in any other party for not being a grown up after Boris Johnson. Or Braverman. Or Truss. Or Matt fucking Hancock.

I honestly dread to think what transpires with this and Ukraine if Trump wins - as it's starting to sound like he may.

Iran are along way from saints in all this either frankly. Not good news at all. Does Iran actually think it can handle Israel though..?

You know.. I think I'd take that. It has the added benefit of making a mockery of the whole system.

I don't know that either, really am coming up short in life ffs..

I only got 22 so don't feel too bad Was never very strong on trivia in general.

Is that date noted when he started following it? That's some commitment.

I didn't mean literally ffs I forgot that was even a feature tbh, does anyone use that?

So this thread has stats and people ripping the piss, both with and without stats. This is going to be a good thread. I do appreciate the effort that goes into it anyway though Dave, will follow it

That article makes sense and explains a lot. It's so convincing that it makes me wonder why Hope works for the Mail at all.

Completely support both the point and the anger with which it was delivered.

It's just vindictive. Which I will concede a lot of people in the hard left are.

Gloom is literally in this thread two pages back saying that he's dismayed that despite thinking that this is what would happen, it hasn't. People on here were definitely saying this man Labour were saying nothing whatsoever, I'll give you that.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with the hard left approach on the Gaza situation - it's too tribal when it should be focused on the best solution for all people. So yeah I agree with you on this.

Understood - and thanks. Why are the members supporting their union in making that play (the first one)? As you say, it seems pointless.

This is of course what they think they're doing too. Anyway look, I dunno why I've waded into this - it never achieves anything. I apologise and will go back to steering clear of this thread.