Craig

Is Cath out of a job?

Fuck off

Not really, no..... Could be absolutely anything, right down to something as straight-forward as her passport.

Comparing ex-Sunderland players to war criminals has got to be one of the most tenious connections I've ever seen.... His only crime (IYO) is playing for our biggest rival. Well fuck me, Bob Stokoe managed them, what did you have to say about him? You're an idiot!

The operative word being 'could'. It quite easily 'could not' as well. If it IS key then it is news..... at the moment its conjecture

I guess my raw attitude is due to the fact that I'm going through a divorce and am already sick to death of seeing intricate details of my life being outlined in detail in paper form by some arsehole solicitor who never mind not knowing me, they've never even met me! Conversely, I'm seeing intricate details of things against the McCanns being outlined by the press and I'm experiencing some empathy for them. It's not news to me, it's some member of the gutter press who's got a sniff of something which may turn out to be lead but in reality may not ever get mentioned again.

That article Jimbo's just posted highlights half the problem with the who situaiton IMO. If someone farts in Praia Da Luz then the press are reporting. FFS a crime has been committed, there's going to be lots of instances of where objects are going to be needed to be seized. It's only a mystery because the numbskull who wrote the article hasn't got a clue what it is. And the comment about it maybe being something that the McCanns are refusing to hand over will be twisted to fuck and will see them painted in the light of "parents with obviously something to hide" Whoever wrote this garbage, fuck off and go report some real news!

And you still insist you're not one and the same person? His lass might follow Liverpool.....mine lives for them. Not a word can be spoken when they're on the box. I've never know a woman ruled by football as much - she even understands the offside rule FFS Mind you, the last game I had to watch with her was them playing the Mackems - not hard to agree with which way I wanted the match to go like....

No age at all like... RIP

I was put on a mini-bus to my school from the day I started infants school. albeit there was only about 7 or 8 kids who got on the bus and all the parents knew each other and one of them was my elder brother (mind you, he was only 10 at the time). But my parents never once took me to school...

Times have changed mate. Aye it's amazing how we've adapted life on account of events that have occurred over the years...

Contrast that with this: ....from page 1 and 2 of this thread. Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference. Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck! If friends of mine did the same, then I would be berating them, even if nothing had happened. Wouldn't you? I presume you mean if they'd done it without any abduction taking place and the Madeleine situation hadn't occurred? I might point out that they'd taken a risk in doing what they'd done but berate them? Probably not OK, put it a different way. You go on holiday with a few friends and your kids. Your friends decide to leave their kids in the apartment and check back on them every 20 minutes. Do you do the same? Do you tell the friends that they are foolish for what they are doing? Even before this happened, I knew that leaving a 3 / 4 year old alone in an apartment is a fucking stupid thing to do. Agree with you. It is fucking stupid. But as you've already agreed, there are other instances in the past where parents have made decisions that turn out to be fatally flawed but don't appear to have been on the receiving end of the same damning treatment that the McCanns have. People take chances, its a fact of life. The McCanns took a chance on the safety of their daughter and sadly appear to have paid the ultimate price for that action. My point about the moral high ground Jimbo is that they'll know they made a terrible mistake, but people up and down the country telling them so is to be honest doing more harm than good.

Our CEO at the time used to work one of the towers and decided to immediately send us all home. We all stayed and watched the TV for the rest of the afternoon.

Contrast that with this: ....from page 1 and 2 of this thread. Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference. Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck! If friends of mine did the same, then I would be berating them, even if nothing had happened. Wouldn't you? I presume you mean if they'd done it without any abduction taking place and the Madeleine situation hadn't occurred? I might point out that they'd taken a risk in doing what they'd done but berate them? Probably not

If you're being watched by someone intent of abducting a child (i think it's fair to assume that it most likely wasn't a moment of opportunism) then it doesn't matter if your back is turned for 2 minutes or 20 - once it's turned, they'll make their move. Its the moral high ground issue. We all (and i'm talking about parents up and down the country) can sit here and say "there's no way I'd have left my kids in that situation" and as Gemmill pointed out, I'm as guilty as anyone for saying it but looking at it rationally: 1) We're saying it with the benefit of hindsight (what a wonderful thing that is and I bet the McCanns wish they'd had the opportunity) 2) It is totally impossible to watch you kids for every single moment of their life

Contrast that with this: ....from page 1 and 2 of this thread. Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference. Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

OK, it's an account of the events but I think it is based on witness testimony (certainly is if you read the rest of the story). Then, just like the McCann's, she's a fucking idiot. I'm sorry, and I know I can't possibly imagine what being a parent is like (before you say it), but that's just stupid, and can't be defended. Craig, am I right in thinking you have friends who are friends with the McCann's? I have a friend who has socialised with them in the past, yes.

Was it really a plane though? Don't start with the consipiracy shite..... They found the remnants of fuselage of two aircraft in the rubble and a commercial jet engine dropped onto a pavement several blocks from the WTC immediately after the second plane hit. I remember it clear as anything, one of the guys at the office was on a telnet bulletin board (those were the days!) and one of his mates in NYC was on there to and was telling them what was happening as it occurred. I remember him coming into my office and saying a plane had hit one of the towers and my first reaction being "what the fuck was it doing over Manhattan anyway?" Then I thought of that incident in Holland years back when a plane in trouble was out of control and hit a block of flats. As soon as the second one hit, it was obvious what was going on....

OK, it's an account of the events but I think it is based on witness testimony (certainly is if you read the rest of the story).

I'll wag the finger, what they did was simply inexcusable regardless of the hindsight of the abduction, I would never leave my children unattended under any circumstances. Seriously Jimbo, have you never left the kids in the house and popped out to get something out of the car? Like I said, it only takes that split second. The McCann's might have been away from the kids for a prolonged period, but they were checking back on them every 20mins or so. As I have said, I think that from a moral perspective, what they did was very questionable and a huge mistake but what they did is by no means unprecendented. They're being chastised because they were unfortunate enough to be the ones that had their child abducted. We all try to wrap our children up in cotton wool as much as possible, but it is impossible to keep an eye on them 24/7. Nothing more tragically highlights this than what happened to Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman. As far as Holly's parents were concerned, the two of them were playing in Holly's room upstairs not knowing that the two of them had sneaked out to buy sweets. As for the comment someone made about a mother leaving her child alone outside a shop in a busy shopping mall (in the case of James Bulger) not being as bad as what the McCann's did. I don't necessarily agree. In both instances, the child was under the care of their parent and in both cases, the parent left the child in a vulnerable situation from which someone exploited. I think Renton has pretty much summed it up well. Until they're proven guilty, the McCanns are innocent and should be treated as such.

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously...... Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them? How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'. My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well? I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

Witch-hunt is perhaps not the right word, and I wasn't referring to specifically on here.... But the fingers are beginning to be pointed and I personally find the whole situation uncomfortable.

The witch-hunt that the media frenzy has whipped up is ridiculous... Many people have already tried and convicted the McCanns before they've even been charged with anything. What if it is a load of bollocks? Try to put yourself in a situation where not only is a child of yours missing, but that people are (possibly) falsely pointing the finger at you for being responsible. I can't speak for others but it would destroy me. So Kate McCann does look like she's acting a bit odd - her kid's been snatched for fuck's sake and grief and trauma affect people in diffferent ways. Far too many people are too quick to judge these days - if there's conclusive proof they've done something, THEN show your disgust of them. Trying to think rationally and given the amount of media hype around them for that first 4-6 weeks after her disappearance, there's no way in my mind that they could have transported her in that car without someone noticing.

No offence Craig, but I think you or her would be daft putting your shirts on, whichever end you sit in. Of course there might just be banter, but there might not, and why take the risk for the sake of wearing a football shirt? Besides if you sit in the away end in a toon top, there's a very good chance you'll be escorted out of the place. She might get away with it in the home end, but I really don't see the point in risking it. 95% chance that it'll be in our end - even if she gets the tickets, it'll be from someone who gets them for the toon end. As for her not putting her shirt on, that's down to her - she'll be OK man, she'll probably have 5 layers on top of it given it's November and she's not from up there