David Kelly

I think every football club should have the right to say they don't want to employ a convicted rapist just as any other company should. But they also should have the right to say they do want to. They should certainly take the opinion of their supporters and other employees into account when making the decision though.

I think the argument you suggested Alex, that he didn't serve his full sentence isn't really relevant to this discussion. He served what the judicial system made him serve. It's not like he escaped or even used a loophole to get him out even though he was known to be guilty. It was deemed he'd served enough to be released. I think it's a fair argument that a person convicted of rape should serve longer than he did but I don't think it has any impact on whether he should be able to go back to work once he has been released.

Surely his mate is guilty of something in that scenario if he let him rape her? I believe (although I'm by no means certain) that you are right in that he has had one appeal turned down.

I'm not suggesting one crime is worse than another only saying that rape pushes more buttons in terms of public opinion that assault (even racially motivated). He may not be doing things that are best for his case but again I would say that if I felt I'd suffered a miscarriage of justice I'd probably shout it from the rooftops. It's certainly not uncommon for people to do that whether or not it's in their best interests. If I was him I would appealling to anyone attacking anyone with a viewpoint like Ennis to stop but him not doing is hardly a case against him in the overall matter. It's more a missed opportinty for him than anything else. It's quite a hard situation for Sheffield. The answer isn't easy imo as I said in my first post. They certainly don't gain much from this and I doubt he'll ever play for them again.

As I've said, I'm no expert on the details. I'd heard there was one of his friends involved too who wasn't convicted. Is this not the case?

I think there are a couple of flaws to your logic there. Firstly, Woodgate never got convicted of rape. The fact that it's rape is the biggest thing with Evans. As much as a racial assault is a hot topic for certain sections of society, it's not in the same league as rape. Secondly why should someone appear contrite if they think they are innocent and have suffered a miscarriage of justice. As I've said I don't know the facts of the case and have no opinion on whether or not he is guilty but if I was thought I was innocent and someone was claiming somthing false against me, the last thing I would be would be sorry. If he feels genuinely agreived then he has a right to say so. On the role model thing, I sort of agree because society does put footballers on a pedestal. It's just my opinion that it's a ridiculous thing to do. Why should we expect more of these people than anyone else. But you're right, maybe he should get an advisor. I wonder if Max Clifford is doing anything? Anyone saying things like that to Ennis is a grade A moron but that's not really his fault. She brought herself into it not him. He could say something like it's her right to express her opinion in relation to the stand named after her but he can't be held responsible for every fuckwit who tweets shite like that.

As has already been mentioned though, how can Evans be appologetic if he claims he's innocent and appealling against the conviction. And I already stated I don't believe he or any other footballer should be expected to be a role model (there are some good ones and you can take them individually on merit but in general they're all well off young lads who I would expect to be cunts a lot of the time and they don't disapoint on that score). All I know about Ennis is that she said she wanted her name taken off the stand if he was re employed, which I think she is quite within her rights to say (fuck knows why they have a stand named after her in the first place). I don't know what attacks you're referring to. I agree with you entirely about McKay.

Is he not still trying to appeal the conviction too? Obviously he can't say he's sorry on one hand and argue he did nothing wrong on the other. I don't really know enough about the actual case to make any comment on whether I think he's guilty or whether the victim is in some way responsible (not that I think any woman who is raped can ever be responsible) I was more just thinking about what you can do with someone who has been convicted of such a crime and then served their time.

I think it's a difficult one re Evans. He's been convicted of a crime and been punished. The law says he has a right to resume his career once he's served his time so if he can't play football again (like other footballers like Lee Hughes did after killing someone) what is he to do? I heard an argument on radio 2 saying that if he was plumber or some other job that wasn't in the public eye then that would be ok. I can't say that I can agree with that like. Apart from anything else the fact that he is in the public eye means that he's well known so if he would want to do it again, people would know him and be more wary so less likely to be caught out by him. I also don't agree that professional footballers should be role models. Anyone who uses pro footballers as a role model for their children wants those kids taken off them! Having said that I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club and I can't say that I'd be happy working with someone who I knew had been convicted of such a crime.

Clearly they aren't comparable crimes but that's kind of my point. If people are prepared to say Evans should be allowed to resume his career after what he has been convicted of, then McKay getting a new job should be no issue at all. At worst he's a prick really but I'm sure we've all worked with some right arseholes before and them not being nice people isn't a reason to stop them working.

I'm aware of that and I think that's a fair enough reason to disagree if that is your reason.

With regards to the original question, do the foreign players being brought in stop the game time and therefore development of domestic young players, or are they brought here because are own aren't good enough in the first place? I think we've just fallen behind other countries in our coaching which has resulted in less good players too. Various social factors are probably also to blame. When I was a bairn I played football every day on the school field or in the street. Now you don't see anywhere near the same amount of bairns playing football for various reasons (fields being closed off, more cars on the streets, parents being frightened of letting their children play out or kids wanting to spend more time on xbox's and ps4's than actually getting out and doing things for real). Again I'm not sure this is happening in other countries as much as it is here.

I don't remember seeing much of a debate on here about Ched Evans but the main argument by people in favour of him being allowed to resume his career is that he's served his time and should now be allowed to make a life for himself using his marketable abilities (being a pro footballer). If that's the case for him then surely it must follow that McKay be allowed to resume his own career. I know it's slightly different in that McKay's faced no punishment (not sure whether there is any legal punishment he could face) other than being sacked, but people make mistakes and people are bellends but should that stop them from ever being able to make a career for themselves again? If they can't what is society to do with them? Let them live on beneifts for the rest of their lives? Obviously I'm not arguing that Whelan isn't a twat as he clearly is.

I thought he'd already retired if I'm honest. Was a very likeable player for us (which is something I don't think we've had much of in recent years) and did a good job for where we were at the time.

I think I'm in agreement with Stevie here. Sissoko being moved into the middle has had a massive impact on our recent upturn. I thought it was very noticeable that when he got into the game against the bin dippers was when we turned things up and ultimately won the game.

I suppose there are similar players who have enjoyed good careers at big clubs while not playing in a lot of the games but then struggling at smaller clubs. The most obvious recent example is Park. He regularly played in the big games for Ferguson and never let him down but then he was shite when he went to QPR in search of more regular football.

Aye I agree confidence has been a major factor. I just hope it can take us through the next two or three games before the really hard run starts because I can't see us picking up much in December.

I think it's been a decision to actually play with wingers rather than wide players grafting. I can't agree that's just personel. It's a tactical decision to try and use the wings as a method of attack rather than just seeing them as somewhere where we can get exposed ourselves. We will really have to wait and see if that basic problem has been resolved though. Since the change has been made we've basically been 100% successful. I suspect like you that it hasn't but I was just talking about the recent improvements that I think we (ie those of us who don't respect him as a manager at all) have to give him some credit for.

Batistuta had 0.62 goals per game at Fiorentina. Shearer had 0.76 at Blackburn, 0.58 in the premier league as a whole and 0.51 for us. If you took Shearers 9 peak years including injuries (ie his time at Blackburn and his first few seasons for us) he actually averaged 0.64. Both clearly had amazing records.

I'm relying on the Stats on wiki but according to their figures he only once scored more goals in a season than games he played. And that was in Qatar. I would guess that even Ronaldo and Messi couldn't get close to a run of getting on towards 2 goals per game over 9 seasons.

I think his tactics have changed somewhat. He's played wingers instead of Goufrran and Sissoko wide with more emphasis on them defending than attacking. This has also allowed our back four (particularly the central two) to sit deeper and allow no space in behind them. This has resulted in goals for the wingers and goals from crosses into the box as well as conceeding less because we aren't getting caught out by opposition players in behind. I certainly think he's had an element of luck in how well the younger players have done and he may well have been forced into some of the tactical change because of who has been available but I think it's only fair to let him have some of the praise for the change in fortune. If we're going to give him the majority of the stick for the shambolic performances over the past couple of seasons then he has to get some credit for this current upturn. I don't think it will last and I'm sure that he'll go back to making god awful decisions soon enough so I can wait until then to give him shit for that. I still think the bloke is a cunt and a shit manager but he's hit upon a sucessfull formular at the minute and deserves some credit (as do the players) for it.

I would completely agree if that were actually true. 1.6 goals a game would be phemnomenal in any league let along a very defensive Itallian. As it was, 0.6 goals a game is also brilliant. I think it could be argued that Shearer was slightly overrated by us because he's a Geordie and (to a much lesser extent) he turned down Manure but he was still the best player I've ever seen play for us and the best striker the premier league has had. Yes after his injuries he lost some of what he had earlier in his career but the fact he managed to adapt his game (admittedly massively with the help of primarily Bellamy but also all the other pace we had in that team) is even greater credit to him. Of course he didn't have Pedro or Gazza's god given magic but he worked really hard at what he did have and you would struggle to find a weakness on any major part of his game (his passing was excellent, his crossing was superb, he was second to none in the air, he could tackle, he was competant with both feet, he was strong as fuck and of course his finishing was sublime). He might have been a selfish bloke at times and I do believe the relationship between him Robson wasn't always what it was made out to be but I don't think that deminishes what a great player he was for us at all. Back the original question, I think Milner is massively overrated. I still think the £12m or so we got for him was fantastic money (obviously the lack of spending it on a replacement cost us). He wasn't (and still isn't) a bad player but all he's ever been is a grafter. He came as a winger and couldn't cross a ball to save his life.

What's peoples feelings about this game tonight? Personally I'm really struggling to give much of a fuck about. I play five a side on a Tuesday at 8 and some of the lads have talked about moving it to 7 so we can watch it but I'm not really arsed either way.

I think him and Janmaat have improved a lot over the past few weeks (since Taylor has returned tbf to that thick twat). He'll be a big miss because I don't think any of our other centrebacks have the intelligence to play without him. Well Mbiwa does but that option's gone now!

I don't think Sib was underrated at all. He was expected to be shite but then he did comparatively well and he's remembered with quite a bit of fondness. I certainly underrated Speed for a good while and Nobby too. Whilst that wasn't a universal opinion, there were certainly quite a few others like me at the time. Cole isn't underrated he just isn't as popular as Shearer and Sir Les. I don't think anyone who can remember him can think of him as anything other than class. I think Darren Peacock and Steve Howey could both be considered underrated. Peacock gets a bad rep because he was brought in for pretty big money and supposed to be the rock in our back four that would make the difference to us in trying to win the league. It never quite worked out like that but he was still a good player and it wasn't his fault that Keegan's style of play meant that the two centrebacks got very little protection. For Howey, there was two or three season when went to centreback that he was excellent for us. He fell away somewhat after he got into the England team (I'm not sure if injuries had something to do with that) but there was a time where he'd been just about the best centrback I'd seen play for us up to that point.