Isegrim

Weren't you there last time, Craig? July 28th would be fine with me. We will do our tournament on August 11th or 18th (a Toontastic team would be welcome of course).

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players. Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely. I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season). Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not. Next to the money for Duff, he also had the money for Huth (6m) to his disposal. In that respect he was chasing a lost cause by trying to snap up a player who already had opted to play for Boro at a point of time we didn't even had started to make up our mind about targets and entering the market. And I still think that Hasselbaink for one year on a free would have been a far better option than Sibierski. And going into the season with only one (dodgy) injury-prone left back cannot get excused at all imho.

I don't disagree and already did said above that I know that appointing the right manager is the most difficult decision a club has to make as there is no guarantee that it will work out. I never blamed the board for the decisions of appointing Dalglish and Gullit, in respect to the latter I was actually quite happy at the time and thought he might be a bit Keegan-like. In fact (as were you) I only was totally sure that the appointment of Souness would never work out. But I still think that apart from the necessary luck you need with this kind of decisions that football does involve "planning" in the term of strategic thinking and trying to make the right decisions well in advance. It is more than leaning back and look how the manager is coping with the job, you do have to support him. And you need the right staff for it, either of it concerning transfers and making sure you don't have an unbalanced squad (as we have now), training (it took the club too long build the appropriate training facilities with both Keegan and Robson complaining about it for a long time), academy, physio staff etc, but also the necessary business side as a Premierleague club is today a big company. It is just my opinion that I think that the club was lacking effort in a lot of these things in the last couple of years, but I do see positive signs in certain things. Edit: And to me Bellamy was always a "planned" signing in the sense that Robson was fully aware of which type of player he needed to get the best out of Shearer. That was why he brought in Gallacher before and Bellamy later (and in whom he was already interested the season before). With Jeffers I only think that Robson had alternative "plans" as well.

Please point me to any post suggesting that a "plan" will guarantee success? But I can guarantee that not "planning" (e.g. panic signings like Souness, and I agree that the manager is the most important part around every "plan" ) will guarantee failure (as it did with Souness). if a "plan" doesn't necessarily bring success, why bother mentioning it all the time ? A good manager, who knows what he is doing, yes. But, as you know, there are only 3 managers who win the cups each season, and unfortunately everybody else wants them too. If appointing managers who have been successful elsewhere is not aiming for success, what is your opinion on what the club ought to have been looking for, since Keegan especially ? I totally agree that a manager who doesn't know what he is doing will guarantee failure, which is the complete opposite of the above. What do you mean exactly by "panic" signings ? Signings made just before the transfer deadline due to not being able to get the players you want the most - which most clubs fail to do - or snapping up a player who suddenly and unexpectedly becomes available, for instance ? If the former, then would you like to tell us how many players are currently at the club who were last minute pre-deadline players, and also those who are not and were deliberately targetted ie "planned signings" by the club ? I mention "planning" all the time, because I don't think that the club is doing it as much as it should do. A "plan" isn't the guarantee for success, but in most cases the foundation. If success doesn't come by planning, it certainly doesn't come accidental. IMHO a club like Newcastle should have a far better infrastructure and better set up. You might not like the idea of a director of football (or a similar person with another title) who supports the manager, but it is something which most actually successful clubs feel is needed. I think it is in SBR's biography where he tells how he liked the old Ipswich days where a manager was responsible for everything, but how it has become impossible in todays football as things are far more complex. Which is why a professional set up involving more people working together is needed nowadays. Of course football is a day-to-day business, but even then you need some kind of strategy to minimise the risks of that kind of business. With "panic signing" in the above post I referred to the appointment of Souness. A better "planning" of the appointment of the manager wouldn't have set the club as much backwards as it did. We would have been far more comfortable with maybe letting Carver in charge of things for another couple of weeks until we had sounded out all possibilities, something I don't think we did with Souness. The worst thing is still that the fall out with the major performers was always written on the wall and I still can't get my head round how anyone could come to the idea that Souness would be a decent choice (and don't get me wrong, I think that this is probably rather a failure from Dougie Hall than Shepherd). But you are right, the "planning" of transfers is something I am highly critical about. Of course there is no guarantee that you get the players you want. But you have to find the balance in holding out and looking at the team's needs. Even before Owen's injury it was obvious that a couple of positions desperately needed strengthening as we were lacking as well class as depth, i.e. both full back positions, centre half and a striker (which become two strikers the moment Owen twisted his knee). It was highly careless to wait until July (something Roeder openly admitted that they did) to wait until make concrete "plans" for the recruitment of players. If you do that there is a big chance that you are running late into signing you players. Not having them in pre-season training and get to know each other on the football pitch is a big disadvantage as every professional manager will tell you. That's why I don't think signing players late in August is a good idea whatsoever. Just for example, Bayern are due to make their third signing for the upcoming next season this week (edit: they just did). And I don't think appointing Roeder on the base of a decent run of games at the end of last season was a good idea. With the club being in the limbo about getting the permission for Roeder it did even more damage to the club. I agree that finding the right manager is difficult, as everything has come together which is rarely the case (but was in the case of Keegan and Robson). But I think Newcastle were in the perfect position to have a deep assessment of the needs when Souness was (thankfully) sacked and replaced by Roeder as a caretaker (something I advised from the start of the season btw). I found it a bit disappointing that it was clear after a few weeks and a few good results that the job was Roeder's. As I said in another thread today, unless we don't have someone up the sleeves who is thought to be much better than Roeder, there is no point in sacking him, unless we want the Souness-scenario again (and this time we don't even have a considerate option for a care taker). But I think Roeder's job should be made more easy by a personal infrastructure that equals todays demands of a professional football club. Although not directly related to the managing staff I am happy that with the re-installation of a new chief executive the first step seems to be done.

And that's what winds me up. I don't think anyone is thinking of Newcastle having a "divine right" to success. But I think that Newcastle's basis is far better than Blackburn's, Everton's, Bolton's and Villa's (until the take over). Even with keeping the injuries in mind we were in a much better position at the start of the season than those teams, but still fail to match them. And I don't think anyone is being put under unfair pressure. Roeder himself said that last year's position has to be the bench mark for this season. But for the record: I am actually not for sacking Roeder or rather moving him back to the academy=. Well, not without having a better solution up the sleeves. But I think Newcastle have to question themselves if they really tap the potential. And IMHO lowering the ambition would mean to accept mediocrity... But of those teams we're only doing better than Villa, and most Newcastle fans wanted MON, he's had a transfer window and money too. Far less injuries though. And a far worse starting position. We'll have to wait and see what happens there during the summer... And I don't accept the injury excuse for our style of play at all. In most of the games we were able to put a quite good team out with (except of left back) players being comfortable in their positions. If the team plays badly it is mainly down to the manager not being able to give the team any structure. This especially applies to form a working partnership out of the three of Emre, Butt and Parker in the centre of the park and the inability of stopping Bramble to hit aimless long balls into all directions.

And that's what winds me up. I don't think anyone is thinking of Newcastle having a "divine right" to success. But I think that Newcastle's basis is far better than Blackburn's, Everton's, Bolton's and Villa's (until the take over). Even with keeping the injuries in mind we were in a much better position at the start of the season than those teams, but still fail to match them. And I don't think anyone is being put under unfair pressure. Roeder himself said that last year's position has to be the bench mark for this season. But for the record: I am actually not for sacking Roeder or rather moving him back to the academy=. Well, not without having a better solution up the sleeves. But I think Newcastle have to question themselves if they really tap the potential. And IMHO lowering the ambition would mean to accept mediocrity...

Planning is ongoing... Is there any plan about the date yet? I'm meeting tonight with friends as we are organising a charity football tournament in the summer which might be in the second half of July. I'd like to avoid a conflict of dates (or you'll have to send a Toontastic team down here)... Weekend 27th/28th/29th?? That's likely to be the weekend of our tournament. We had August 4th in mind, but we have a French team coming over every year who can't make it, so we are probably settling for a week earlier. Anyway, I'll know more for definite until tomorrow.

Planning is ongoing... Is there any plan about the date yet? I'm meeting tonight with friends as we are organising a charity football tournament in the summer which might be in the second half of July. I'd like to avoid a conflict of dates (or you'll have to send a Toontastic team down here)...

I don't disagree with that. It's just that there is no need in pretending current developments to be better than they actually are . At the moment we are not progressing, not even going stale, but still going backwards imho. And at the end of last season was the perfect timing for trying to install some stability by scouting the market for an apt manager and strengthen managerially.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players. Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

Don't get me wrong, Robson was a much better manager than Roeder, but is there anyone out there as good as Robson who'd want to manage us right now? Of course there are only few Robsons out, but I think there were a lot better options than Roeder who should have went back to the academy. But I doubt we were really scouting the market although there was the perfect scenario for this due to the circumstances last season. "planning"

As I said in the other thread, the City game is now starting to look very unlikely for me.

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough... In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts. It was obvious Robson (after what had come before) was moving the club in the right direction. It's less obvious under Roeder I suppose. That's the difference. For the same reason Robson, rightly or wrongly, went. The club (arguably) appeared to be going downhill. And Roeder is doing ok/steadying the ship or whatever. Just like SBR did. The next test is whether or not he can move the club forward next season. And it was obvious how Robson was immediately giving the team much more shape and style (I still think if we had beaten Chelsea in the semis, we would have won the cup - I f***ing hate Poyet). The second season went a bit stale, but you could still see things improving and the fact that it only needed two summer signings to totally turn around the club's fortunes was a reflection of this. I've seen nothing to convince me that Roeder will be able to do the same.

Please point me to any post suggesting that a "plan" will guarantee success? But I can guarantee that not "planning" (e.g. panic signings like Souness, and I agree that the manager is the most important part around every "plan" ) will guarantee failure (as it did with Souness).

RobW has a collection of cave paintings of old Newcastle games he is looking at to remember the good old days...

As much as I could make out it's "rather a paki than a jew". Correct, but I didn't spot Emre there. Probably too busy chasing journalists, "chocolate bars" and Swiss footballers elsewhere...

As much as I could make out it's "rather a paki than a jew".

Settling for mediocrity... QED

I don't know anything about the bloke, but on paper this is a move into the right direction. The stock market announcement sounds as if there is more to come. Let's wait and see... And I forgot to add: "planning" :D

I think a lot people are blinkered because Le Sib is doing better than expected, which is still overall not good enough. Shola is surely the better player, although there are enough people considering not to be better than good First Division standard...

He is a decent squad player. If people settled for him as a decent first-teamer, then yes, there would be questions asked. I'm not sure who you'd consider a decent squad player? No, a decent squad player for a team challenging for a European qualifying spot should still be of the standard to fulfil this ambition. If you have to play the kind of players like Sibierski you will get average results and end up in average league positions. I'd make an exception if he was an 18 year old academy player, something he isn't...

I think the fact that some people consider Le Sib as a decent squad player just proves that they have finally settled for mediocrity.

It's a big bonus in attracting players though. Otherwise you have to lure them with money, which is a bit unhealthy if you consider the current balance sheets...

A major factor why Klinsmann was doing so well with Germany in the last World Cup. Klinsmann's coaching ability are rather questionable, but what he was good at was to install a professional set up of coaches etc. There were especially a lot of people moaning about his idea of hiring American fitness coaches by saying 'bla bla, we never needed them, we were always good enough etc.'. But all players admit it was amazing what impact those coaches had and how they were concentrating on the individual needs of each player, e.g. pace, strengths etc.

That's the main reason why he would never get a contract extension from me. Leazes may rightfully insist on defending starting up front with keeping possession. But at the same time does attacking start from the back, but Bramble's clownesque hoofing does put us directly put us on the back foot again. It's horrible when a crap centre half is arguably dictating our style of play... I think as a team we don't defend too badly tbh, the problem is we have a group of players who are regulars to the first team and are absolutely fucking hopeless with a football at their feet - Carr, Bramble, Moore, Taylor, Ramage, Babayaro, Butt and Parker are all technically inept. We concede stupid goals because none of the above are capable of playing a passing game which will help us retain possession, they panic under pressure and give stupid goals away, on top of that they're incapable of playing the ball out from the back which means they either boot it long or give it back to the keeper for him to do the same. You can already see what a massive difference Solano going into the back four made just because he can pass a ball, we really need to get the majority of other positions at the back filled with technically good players. I totally agree (especially with the last part)... ... with the exception that Emre's stupid amount of misplaced passes is also doing my head in.