NJS

I think calling them bastards and mentioning I abhor Islam makes my position clear. My point is that Stevie seems to be suggesting this is somehow worse than anything anyone has ever done - I don't think it is. I also don't think saying "it's the 21st century FFS" matters either.

Complete different, and you know you're talking shite because when you've actually got a point to make you'll write 10 lines. Religion in the past has been used a control mechanism for the masses - think of the influence of the Catholic church in Europe in the middle ages. With that control as with any form of government comes the need to keep dissent down. It doesn't matter whether the control mechanism is religion, race as it was in South Africa, politics as it was in fascist or communist countries, the excesses have always taken place. From Tianaamen square to the highland clearances to the Petersfield massacres and the Croke park massacre in Ireland. What makes you think the Taliban are any different? Do you think the Ku Klux Klan never strung up an innocent black or the guerillas in various African conflicts ever cared who they raped or mutilated? As I sad the British were masters at supressing dissent - the Tasmanian genocide, the Indian tyranny and others were just as bad as anything the Taliban have ever done. Theres nothing wrong with condemning the bastard for shit like this but don't tell me they are the only "inhuman" fighters who've ever done stuff like this. You really need to read some history.

it isn't the same at all, and what has the old British Empire got to do with it ? To stop you taking the moral high ground about "us" being civilised.

It's all the same thing - rule by teror - it doesn't matter if the victims are innocent or guilty its about demonstrating absolute rule. The British were masters at it in the empire days - practicing what would now be categorised as genocide just to stop any dissent.

The religion is just an excuse to abuse power and to keep that power by terror - no different to knee capping in Ulster or lynchings in the American South in the 50s or 60s.

Aye that's a good comparison like FFS gangland war battles, as opposed to a 20 year old girl who did fuck all wrong. What about cases where that woman killed herself because of charvers tormenting her disabled daughter? Or the baby P case? There are scum in all societies who given a chance will descend to the lowest level (see Fritzl and his equivalent from Sheffield) - the problem is when those elements gain power as they obviously did in Afghanistan. That doesn't mean all Austrian fathers or all Afghans are inhuman.

To be fair Stevie, I've read accounts of crimes in this country like teeth being pulled with pliers and those recent gangland atrocities in Glasgow involving chiselling people's dicks off which are just as bad as the Taliban's acts.

Undoubtedly and undeniably - but I see the "brotherhood" thing as something which should transcend the more "human" side of their/our natures.

Do you see the irony of being a native of the country which has the worst record of any place ever for trampling on the cultures of foreign countries? As I also keep saying most Muslims in this country do integrate to a decent degree - if they didn't you wouldn't have those curries you like so much. What kind of integration would be acceptable to you? Do you expect them to give up their religion in favour of a historical but fading christianity? Should they be forced to drink alcohol even if they don't want to? or eat fish and chips? You expect them to abide by the law which is fair enough - as I've pointed out polls show Muslims have more respect for the legal authorities than "native" British people and they certainly have lower offending rates. When it comes down to it their biggest crime is that they feel a sense of brotherhood with other Muslims in the rest of the world and don't like it when the west starts illegal wars causing untold deaths of their "mates". I abhor the religion behind it but I can't help feeling that the rest of us could learn from this sense of togetherness they have rather than the petty tribal squabbles which have plagued the human race since its infancy. It's about time we all realised that what we have in common with all other humans is more important than stupid differences - if that makes me a do-gooder, PC, leftie, hippy terrorist then fair enough.

I still think that apart from some enclaves in places like Blackburn. Oldham and Bradford, immigrants to the UK are integrated to a pretty decent level so I've never understood the pursuit of multi-culturism so strongly. If it just means not forcing people to give up their identities then I don't see it as a failure. Having said that I would still remove exemptions from laws like Kosher/Halal slaughter.

This weeks language is Spanish - continuing the seasons continental tour.

I spent a couple of minutes trying to figure out how to get the "sticker" off like Haven't tried other formats extensively yet - transferred one pdf (train timetable) directly from PC just to try it and it was fine.

"Kurdistan" sovereign? - better tell Turkey.

Perm (no pun intended) one from Dublin, Oslo and Singapore.

The borders of that region were drawn by western governments/oil companies. Kuwait was historically part of Iraq.

If you believe the holding company angle then very slim.

I've had a blackberry or other phone from work for about 5 years now. Previous to that I had a contract with Orange but I always thought it was poor value as I never used all the minutes etc so I transferred to pay as you go which worked fine for me. I still have the phone/number with that sim lying around. As I intend to leave my current place in the near future I need to get a personal phone again and fancy a smart phone - probably an Android of some kind. Now I can afford £30/£35 a month but again I would be nagged by the thought it wasn't good value again as I can't imagine using these hundreds of minutes/thousands of texts you get on contract now. However I do want a good internet deal. I've done a few searches and see what look like "pay as you go" deals but they are basically just regular monthly amounts unbound by contracts. What I want is what I had previously on Orange - I want to buy a £20 top up and if that lasts 2 week, 2 months or 2 years that's up to me - then I'd just buy another one. However as I said it needs to include Internet. Anyone got any recommendations of retailers/deals available? Is it possible? I don't mind buying the phone and getting a SIM only deal if that's what it takes.

Hopefully any deal will not involve a new stadium which should keep them at their present level.

Sounds to me like LM's "heroic" special forces turned out to be incompetent killers - nothing to choose between them and the kidnappers. Agree the lass was daft for going there though.

Bad crack that like! Any chance you could name and shame to avoid the rest of us ending up getting ripped off there? Unlikely - the offender is now an HGV fuel depot just outside Chelmsford, the good guy was in Harlow - should be the other way round given the two towns really.

So is the evidence real?

Not in answer but I had a problem a few years ago when a garage "failed" my MOT for the handbrake. I then took it to a garage round the corner from work as it was more convenient who told me there was nowt wrong with it so I went back to the original garage to complain. The manager tested it and entered the number into a card type calculator, took a doubletake, then right in front of me turned the dial before pointing at it saying "there you go, fail". I went apeshit but he basically said it was my word against his as nobody else was there. I took it back to the other garage to get MOTed and he told me he wasn't surprised but in any case even if I proved they'd done the test wrong the best I'd get would be the a refund of the test fee.

I keep seeing a figure for vacancies of 550k (don't know how that's defined). Between 2-3 million "job seekers" + another 3 or 4 "not seeking" work for other reasons suggests a shortfall.

The problem with QE was that the money was sucked up by the banks - I'd liked to have seen it invested more directly in the economy, cutting out the middle man - things like extending the car scrappage scheme to all household goods etc.

It's 7th century. 7th. Wouldn't want you to commit a factual error to go along with your ignorance and racism, you've got enough on your plate. Islam wasn't that bad in the early days - certainly pissed on Europe's dark ages in terms of scientific progress etc - I think it was about the 16th century when it started to go a bit wrong. What happened in the 1500s that made it go wrong? The Ottoman Empire was still at its strongest then. No, it was the late 19th century when Islamic civilisation entered a terminal decline ending in the fall of the Ottomans and the rise of Islamism as a political philosophy, then the early 20th century post-WWI period when Western colonial powers set up dictatorships in the former Ottoman territories that endure to this day (see Saudi, Jordan, most of the Gulf states, etc). What I said about the 7th century was referring to his "turn back the clock" comment. Nobody wants to turn back the clock to the 1300s. The radicals say they're going to re-implement the caliphate, shari'a, etc - all of which dates from the 7th century, the time of the Prophet. Wasn't in around the 16th that the Sunni/Shia split happened? - obviously I'm not an expert but had read what may have been a throwaway remark about Islamic centres of learning etc "coming to an end" about then.