NJS

Well presumably if you mean outside countries get higher prices for their goods then the converse is that they would pay more for their imports? On a bigger picture I agree with someone else who said if you look at the economies of the US, India and China, the only way to be in the same ball park (sorry Stevie) is to be in an entity as large as the EU. I think an "independent" UK would be marginalised in world terms - better to be at the sentre of Europe than outside pissing in.

But how would you replace all the trade with EU countries that is dependent on EU tariffs etc? The last thing I saw mentioned 11m jobs - of course a lot of trade would find a way around it but even a 25% loss would cost a lot more than £30bn. "We get nowt back" shows immense naivity imo.

I'd accept that there is a level of casual racism in this country (and in all others) - I just think the nastier side of it is like homophobia and religious adherence - in general a generational hangover which will reduce as people of previous eras die. I know this is a generalisation but I'll bet if everyone thinks of their parents/grandparents attitudes, no matter how good people they were, they would have exhibited some of these attitudes. Maybe they were less shy in speaking about it but I honestly think that if Love thy neighbour and Mind your language were shown now, people would be genuinely astonished that they were considered comedies and wouldn't be thinking "wow this is funny". Of course there are still people who would like them and would revel in saying so while crying about political correctness but finding people being called "nignogs" funny is a step too far. If the argument is that this is "okay" as it harms nobody I'd disagree. As a lefty I don't think I'm naive or politically correct - I've already said in this thread how I'd limit immigration and I have no problem stating that the level of crime in black areas of London is fucking disgraceful and the cultural aspects of that should be addressed - but that doesn't mean I'd support any of the BNP's shite.

I thought it was Gemmill who slightly questioned the merits of the qualification process - could be wrong.

The IRA used to do the same - (now hopefully consigned to history) that didn't and doesn't mean that a purge of Irishmen would have been the answer. It's all about day to day as well - I was affected on July 7th but millions weren't - I'm not affected by charvers but thousands are - I'd say to the degree that an answer to underclass probllem would benefit more people than any perceived issues on immigration. Before the last decade nobody gave Muslim immigration in this country a second thought so for decades everybody was "happy" with it. Of course world events can change things but again I'd ask - how would the people who voted BNP benefit on a day to day basis if immgration was halted or reversed? What you or I would call English culture has changed in the years since the war - I think for the better in general - I don't want to go back to a time when there was no real choice of resteraunt or when the only family holiday you could have was either Butlins or caravanning. The genie of a global village is out of the bottle - it may be too American in some ways but I don't honestly see how you could want to either go back or to limit the way things have changed. Of course within that context theres nothing wrong with still being proudly English/British.

Do you honestly think if all US TV (and of cource cinema and music) was banned tomorrow that in 15 years time kids would have returned to saying arse instead of ass? This is a lesser version of the main issue - do people honestly believe that if all immigrants (since say 1948 so Phil the Greek can stay) and their families did take the BNP shilling and left that the country would be "better" in 10, 15, 50 years? How would this narrow the gap between rich and poor? How would it solve the white underclass problem? For a lot of Mail readers I'm convinced that their should be perfect lives (ie they have everything they want) is only lit up by getting angry at the latest immigrant/Muslim "outrage". In that context if the UK became an immigrant free zone their lives would have no joy left and I assume mass suicide would ensue. Fuck I knew I should have voted for them.

So if you think US TV is boring that makes banning it for millions okay? I watch 3 programmes on the BBC and I haven't watched a single programme on ITV for at least 5 years - how about we ban that shite too? The BNP anti-US TV has nothing to do with quality or appeal - its about cultural dilution - another racist argument of theirs.

Dodgy as fuck - the people he owes money to have "bought" it when all their banks should be concentrating on paying back creditors from last year. I suppose the equivalent would be Ashley selling us to Kemsley.

The US telly one is a scream for starters - it comes from their underlying notion that "British" is perfect for everything and if we just remove all the outside influences, all our problems would magically disappear - its beyond stupid. As for the EU as I've said until the BNP or the UKIP can actually explain how the economy would work without it, leaving is a non-starter.

I'm surprised nobody has researched Griffin's ancestry - surely like most people you'd only need a few generations before finding an immigrant if not a full on "lower race".

Haven't checked the figures but have just read that their proportion of the vote was actually less than 2004 - they got seats due to a collapse in the labour vote. That's obviously a different issue but if they try and sell it as a massive swing to them by people "waking up" or however they put it then they are taking crap. Edit: Actually their proportion increased by about 1.5% but the number of votes was about the same.

We've been in a new building since January. As you check-in by passing your security card over a scanner it displays an assigned life out of the 8 available. Obviously they need a touch screen interface which repeats the choice at the lifts (10m away) to cater for imbeciles but the number of people I see look down and read the letter at the turnstile and then use the lift interface 4 seconds later is incredible. They must have an attention span in the milliseconds.

Griifin said they aren't racist - but supported the "indigenous" people of Britain - what does that even mean? As I said above what's his measure of purity (apart from skin colour obviously)? I'd imagine their type of patriotism includes the monarchy - does he realise the next king's father is an immigrant?

That may be true but they should be told what they are voting for in no uncertain terms. If they still think that the BNP represents their views then I think they have to accept being called racists. If the response is "yeah and so what" then at least its out there to be argued against but this idea that it can be respectable to vote for them just because you're concerned about immigraion has to be nailed for the bullshit it is.

There is of course an alternative - ask the BNP to cost all of their policies. Of course I doubt they have the intelligence to do that and their supporters wouldn't understand the results but it would be a start. Two things generally decide elections - whether its perceived a government has had enough time (which will do for Labour) and the economy which is why things like Iraq or immigration don't "really" matter. On this basis the BNP has no chance. One thing we shouldn't get away from is that anyone who votes for them is a racist - I don't care if they're a genius or a Sunderland fan - they can't get away from that.

Prove any or all of those assertions with links. you prove what you say with links The burden of proof is ion the positive. I don't remember the police being stopped from doing their jobs due to and political correctness - in fact the opposite - they have used new powers to harass enviromental protestors, football fans and Muslims in the last couple of years on many occasions. It's less than two months since they contributed to someone's death at a demo - was that prevented by political correctness? I've already stated that the 50 years thing is shit - a flawed report which got its maths completely wrong - how can less than 2% of 60m people "out-breed" the rest in 2 generations when the difference in birthrate is miniscule - would you care to explain it? The only indoctrination kids get is religious - somethiong I'd stop - but since the vast majority of that is Christian why would you or the BNP object? - or are you objecting to kids learning about other cultures in a pure Mail style. As for national service the armed forced keep telling us that they don't want it - I can remember it first being suggested in the 80s and the army was horrified at the prospect of their professionalism being diluted by scrotes. It's another policy desined to appeal to cretins who would be absolutely horrified if their kids were called up - or even bterr themselves.

Prove any or all of those assertions with links.

They don't like the "nazi" label but how about another - Apartheid - the only way they could work their "system" is to define everybody's racial purity according to some arbitrary scale - as I said the more you dig the stupider it gets.

A man is defined by his actions not by his history [/classic Arnie]

Another N-O classic was that I was called an idiot for calling Harris a lying Ashley stooge - something along the lines of "respectable banker" according to LLO I think .

A perfect example of what we are talking about - if anyone actually thinks that the police can't do their job due to politcal correctness, that "pure" English people will be outbred in 50 years, that kids are indoctrinated and that national service would work they are too stupid to vote.

About 4 years ago Rob Lee (who may be playing according to .com) was in the team and we walked it - I expected us to win the whole thing but he didn't make the nationals. Judging by Ketsbaia last year with Lee and possibly Gazza we should be fucking laughing.

What the fuck are you doing on here - you should be conkers deep

I'm certain because I know usenet downloads at 20Mb/s Everything else is too subject to variables. I'd also point out that the ISPs taken to task over advertising were all non-fibre services with the exchange factors.

I would love people to define this "country going to the dogs" line that gets taken too often. Yes some things are from perfect but as I've said before some kind of nostalgia for the wonderfully moral post-war years or even the 60s or 70s is complete bollocks imo. Yes, some things have changed for the worse but is there anybody on here who would honestly rather live in the UK at any preceding time in its history?