NJS

Change "Apes" to "common ancestor with apes" and its atheory with so much evidence it may be stated as a fact - just like Gravity or Electricity. Evolution should be taught in Science lessons - thats where the lies need to be excluded from. You should try working in the numerous Faith schools which aren't as "shy" as yours about brainwashing.

Try here: Fact/Theory Theres a slight difference between a few dodgy records and 150 years of scientific research.

The Koran promises paradise to martyrs - should they act on it? Bishops sit in the House of Lords, they vote on laws that effect me - I find that abhorrent. "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise)" The Bible says pretty much the same tbh Undoubtedly - I'm an equal-opportunities heretic. Koran: 4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. Deuteronomy: 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; (13:6-10) "Thine hand shall be first upon him." If your brother, son, daughter, wife, or friend tries to get you to worship another god, "thou shalt surely kill him, thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death." Should "excused" beliefs allow people to murder non-believers as encouraged here?

I'd challenge those figures. Or better I say from those who really take it literally only a very small proportion is dangerous, i.e. religious nutters who take it literal and dispel modern science as well. Those people who just believe that there was a person called Jesus existed and believe in some of the moral teachings based on this do hardly cause harm. I'd say the vast majority of Americans firstly believe in their constitutional system and it's freedom rights. And a lot of these values have - like it or like it not - been developed on the foundations of Christianity. Modern Christianity is not thinkable without the age of enlightenment and therefore got far more "reason" than modern atheists often want to acknowledge. In fact the development of "reason" would be kind of unthinkable if it had come from Christian thoughts itself. That is something that seperates Christianity from more "barbaric" religions as Islam for example, it's ability to adapt. The pope had a kind of point in this regard. In the last one I saw 51% of Americans believe the world is less than 10000 years old and Genesis is fact - thats 150 million morons. Did the Christian church object to or campaign for the abolition of slavery? Actually heres one with 53%: Poll

The Koran promises paradise to martyrs - should they act on it? Bishops sit in the House of Lords, they vote on laws that effect me - I find that abhorrent.

Thats pretty much my view - I think a persons beliefs (I actually accept Peter Beardsley as my God) are fine as long as they never leave the house. Teaching kids lies is what really pisses me off.

Things that made the goalposts move: Proving Genesis is bollocks - all of a sudden it became a "metaphor" when the authors wouldn't have a clue what that was. General progress in the understanding of the Earth and its place in the universe. The printing press and the education of the masses to read. The moral progress of civilisation (see how Christians were okay with slavery). None of those were pushed by Theists - in fact I maintain the catholic church were and would be much happier now if only they had the ability to "interpret" the bible - nothing should cause more doubts that a browse of the OT. As Dawkins says what we use to "cherry pick" the bible for the good parts are our own inate sense of morals we have as humans - if you take away the nice but obvious bits and ignore the really nasty bits as we're all a bit more civilised now what exactly is left? - the mythology of one small middle eastern tribe. As I said people are moral for all sorts of good reasons - "thanking" religion for that or for any kind of progress is giving too much credit imo.

What you need to research is Psychiatry and Neurology - those two might not have all the answers but I do know that the effects you describe can be chemically induced in any brain - see the book of Revelation as evidence.

The census, which was actually an invention to get the birth to Bethlehem as prophesised, never happened in Herod's reign. More generally on morality hundreds of religions all over the world all came up with the same general principles - a clear indication that those morals are human nature rather the "god given" - the only thing really supplied by religions is the petty dogma. I think the mainly Chrisian notion that the only thing that keeps people from behaving "like animals" is the fear or love of God is the most insidious, evil notion ever raised.

There a lot less evidence than you think - most is contrived to fit the belief rather than being unquestionable. I'm not 100% sure he existed but tend to err on the positive - if he did he may have said some good things (Filed under "stating the bleeding obvious") but the supernatural part of it is as far-fetched as Jason & The Argonauts or perhaps more apt the legend of Mithras.

Do I need to study Fairies or Astrology in any depth to know they're nonsense? Do I need a degree in classics to dismiss Zeus? "Theology" fails by its definition - the study of something that does not exist. The Sky God of an inerrant bible has been proved to be a lie so they move the goalposts to "something that exists ouside of space and time" - fair enough but that fucker isn't the Abrahamic God that "ordinary" believers pray to.

Would that be Adolf "Choir Boy, given power by Rome to appoint bishops, wrote in Mein Kampf of the Lord's work, never excommunicated but still named as a fucking atheist" Hitler. As Renton said Atheism wasn't their ethos.

Yeah I read The God Delusion a couple of months ago - its a bit "preaching to the converted" as I can't see dyed in the wool theists having a revelation after reading it. Aiming it at the people he says it is - people who've been brainwashed but are feeling uneasy in the face of thought - might work. The Haggard story did make me laugh - I don't care that he's gay but the hypocrisy is hilarious. I'd recommend Dawkins' new web site: http://richarddawkins.net/home

I get what you're saying but I think in general there has to be a recognition that people are inherently "weak" on any number of criteria but thats what makes us human. As I've said before I find it astonishing that anybody believes superstisious nonsense in the face of all reason but while I would like to see it discouraged, all out "punishment" is a step too far. On the other hand some of the measurements on weight are ridiculous - I was looking at a BMI site last week where for a 6Ft man the "healthy" range started at 9St 12lb which is frankly skeletal and in no way "normal" to me.

?????????? But he was Man Utd's captain in that season. Of course he wanted to win the title? Is that all! He's got the comments right but the period wrong. It was the cup final in '99 IIRC Thanks Craig.

?????????? But he was Man Utd's captain in that season. Of course he wanted to win the title? Is that all! Hadn't he packed in by then? - if not then it may have been punditry since - my memories are admittedly twisted by bitterness but I definitely remember seeing him sitting in a Sky box after a match between us looking like a lot happier version of Bagpuss then normal.

Oh fuck off please! Am I missing something with Bruce? Has he done or said something I've missed because I can never understand all these 'plastic geordie' comments he gets. I can understand people not wanting him for his managerial skills but can never understand why he gets slagged by you for his geordie roots Because people remember 95/96 when his Sky punditry left nobody in any doubt where he wanted the title to go.

I might be wrong but I always took the moral to be that it didn't matter in the end - a bit similar to the premise in Total Recall that a man is defined by his actions not by his history.

Amen ! I've got the party poppers and my dancing shoes ready ! sticks of TNT in her coffin with the fuses hanging out the sides and then give everyone a match! Put the saggy old bitch into orbit tbh! Might be awkward to light them with all the people pissing.

I think his cause wasn't helped by not being able to play in the UEFA - and the way Sib turned out compounded that. Maybe he paid the price for Sheff Utd (dunno if that was fair - I was on holiday and missed that).

Has never asked for money. Has had at least $500m in african debt written off. Received death threats from the IRA after Rattle & Hum denouncement before SBS - their most famous song and probably the most anti-IRA song ever written. He does act like a prick when he isn't doing his day job but then again the end justifies the means - what the fuck have you sanctimonious wankers done for the rest of the world? He also happens to be in the best band ever. Thought I'd add a bit of balance.

There was a CSI once where someone did this - the point is it numbs the nerves on your bell end and supposedly delays orgasm - don't know what it would do for her but I think in the CSI it was a bad batch and the lass dropped down dead.

I'm a tad younger than you Bob but that sent a huge shiver down my spine - childhood memories of being allowed to go in the Leazes

"Fuck the lower leagues"

Both acts of desperation though. And just to clarify - the drug I referred to wasn't an illegal substance, it was a medical one. "Pushing drugs in a quiet room" sounds like he was injecting heroin or something. Yes I'm being over-sensitive. I presumed that that was what you meant - I wasn't implying seediness or anything.