Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 What do people make of him and his role? I must say the Dennis Wise that I know/knew has come a long way and I never really saw him as higher management potential. There is no doubts he is shrewd, a survivor a little battler and all that...But do peeps think he will deliver this summer and is he the right man to be representing the club in initiating player recruitment with Vetere and Jimenez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Was just discussing something similar with Sammynb via PM and one thing struck me. If Wise and co are getting the players (or trying to) - why appoint Keegan? (I can guess the cynical response to that btw). Because one of Keegan's strengths (arguably his greatest) was to identfiy a good player and go and get him. He was always a brilliant judge when it came to signings first time round. If he isn't picking the players to sign we should have gone for a continental coach-type of manager iyam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) Was just discussing something similar with Sammynb via PM and one thing struck me. If Wise and co are getting the players (or trying to) - why appoint Keegan? (I can guess the cynical response to that btw). Because one of Keegan's strengths (arguably his greatest) was to identfiy a good player and go and get him. He was always a brilliant judge when it came to signings first time round. If he isn't picking the players to sign we should have gone for a continental coach-type of manager iyam. Spot on. Why hire the magician and let the props boy do the talking? Edited July 25, 2008 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19838 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 dennis wise for the toon makes darren pattinson for england look a logical move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 This is the one thing that just doesnt sit with me. Like many I raised an eyebrow when Wise was appointed. But, maybe unlike many, I was willing to give him a shot. After all, our fall from grace has been so rapid and so far that I dont think we can really hum and har about appointments any more and a change in ways is perhaps what we needed. Anyway, this said, many signings of old under KK came because KK persuaded them to. He's a motivator, he makes players feel loved. I very much doubt we would have signed Rob Lee, Ginola or Asprilla but for KKs input. I wouldnt go as far to say why have KK when its one thing recruiting and another managing. However, I would say that recruiting was one of KKs strengths so why not use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26447 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 hard to say how could a job they're doing till someone finds out what the craic was with the Aimar deals etcdid they do they're part and had hands tied terms wise by ashely did the players they went for try stick they're arms in etcetc I think Keegan was hired 1. Ashley knew if he had some tough times we wouldn't go quite as mental as previous with keegan at the helm, he'd get more time. 2. crowd pleasers like keegan coming back to the club sells shirts tickets and brings in alot of much needed money I think you're right there but it doesn't work in Ashley's favour, it will intensify the pressure on Ashley because if things go wrong then there'll be a lot more people calling for Ashley's head than Keegan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 I think a lot of us are holding back and crossing our fingers (hoping for the best) and the stories (to my amusement) have been in a flux. It's gone from reticence about backing SA (not their man etc) to expecting full backing for KK to a kind of grey area now where people are falling back on money issues (balancing the books). As is the nature of banter on message boards I've found myself reading between the lines more often than not and my feeling is we're actually slowly but surely managing our own expectations downward - I don't believe they are as high now as they were last Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 hard to say how could a job they're doing till someone finds out what the craic was with the Aimar deals etcdid they do they're part and had hands tied terms wise by ashely did the players they went for try stick they're arms in etcetc I think Keegan was hired 1. Ashley knew if he had some tough times we wouldn't go quite as mental as previous with keegan at the helm, he'd get more time. 2. crowd pleasers like keegan coming back to the club sells shirts tickets and brings in alot of much needed money To give Ashley his due it was a masterstroke bringing back KK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Results are all that count. If he gets in some quality players then he's met expectation. If he doesn't then he's the same irritating little wanky gobshite he always was as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure what the point of him is if he's not helping to improve our first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 Results are all that count. If he gets in some quality players then he's met expectation. If he doesn't then he's the same irritating little wanky gobshite he always was as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure what the point of him is if he's not helping to improve our first team. If he doesn't deliver this summer would you keep him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douggy B 0 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. Edited July 25, 2008 by Danny B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. All well and good and I think we know what a dof does mate. But the the question here is does Wise have the right profile for such a role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Results are all that count. If he gets in some quality players then he's met expectation. If he doesn't then he's the same irritating little wanky gobshite he always was as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure what the point of him is if he's not helping to improve our first team. If he doesn't deliver this summer would you keep him? Only if I knew what it is that he actually does. The suspicion remains he's really a spare manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. I think most people are familiar with the concept. It's more a question of what the fuck Wise actually does. I can't recall seeing much evidence of the vision being put into practice. Yet. Of course it's early days, and I'll be honest I'm more interested in the first team than what goes on behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9013 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. All well and good and I think we know what a dof does mate. But the the question here is does Wise have the right profile for such a role? Is Dennis Wise DoF though? I mean is that his actual role? I've interpreted it to be a glorified scouting role. If such is the case then Keegan will still take any suggestions under advisement and play a major role in the signature of players. I'm keen to see how the young players we picked up last year turn out, as Guitierrez and Guthrie still have the taste of KK signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26447 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. All well and good and I think we know what a dof does mate. But the the question here is does Wise have the right profile for such a role? Exactly, there's not much in having such continuity if the person in the role is part of the problem that got the manager sacked in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douggy B 0 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. All well and good and I think we know what a dof does mate. But the the question here is does Wise have the right profile for such a role? Lots of eyebrows raised I must admit. Has he been in the game long enough to set up a scouting network? Maybe he has an innovative vision for the club that Ashley liked? Maybe he is just there as a buffer to stop KK and MA falling out. Or maybe its jobs for the boys. Time will tell. My feeling is MA has a plan for NUFC and until that is realised your spening will be nominal, after which you may then see what Wise can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 The principle of the DOF role is to provide alevel of continuity within the clubs in these days when management posts are rarely long term. The DOF has a vision for the club that doesnt change no matter who coaches the team. KK will have input on positions he needs filling and players he fancies, Wise will also have players that fit with his vision. If both agree on a player they will approach MA for funding. Thats the way it works. KK will be coaching / picking the team / motivating the players. All well and good and I think we know what a dof does mate. But the the question here is does Wise have the right profile for such a role? Is Dennis Wise DoF though? I mean is that his actual role? I've interpreted it to be a glorified scouting role. If such is the case then Keegan will still take any suggestions under advisement and play a major role in the signature of players. I'm keen to see how the young players we picked up last year turn out, as Guitierrez and Guthrie still have the taste of KK signings. It says something that none of us are really sure what the actual roles are and who is involved to what level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3985 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I have no problem with WIse if his role is to identify and buy young talent like Spears but feel that "senior" transfers should be promped by Keegan. Again I have no problem with professional negotiators or even an initial recommendation process but that has to be rubber stamped by Kev. They claim this is how it does work - like most I have doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9013 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I have no problem with WIse if his role is to identify and buy young talent like Spears but feel that "senior" transfers should be promped by Keegan. Again I have no problem with professional negotiators or even an initial recommendation process but that has to be rubber stamped by Kev. They claim this is how it does work - like most I have doubts. Did we actually get Spears in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Was just discussing something similar with Sammynb via PM and one thing struck me. If Wise and co are getting the players (or trying to) - why appoint Keegan? (I can guess the cynical response to that btw). Because one of Keegan's strengths (arguably his greatest) was to identfiy a good player and go and get him. He was always a brilliant judge when it came to signings first time round. If he isn't picking the players to sign we should have gone for a continental coach-type of manager iyam. Hasn't Keegan and Mort said on more than one occasion that he will have the final say on which players come into this football club? As for someone who said Keegan should be the one convincing players to come here - Didn't Bassong say his agent has been in talks with Keegan with him saying we've been watching him play for a while now? Didn't Terry Mac also say that Keegan has been on the phone to potential signings about coming here from Florida when he was on holiday? The fact is a manager has never been in control of transfers at Newcastle, remember when Souness was interviewed at the airport and asked about Anelka? His reply was "you had better ask the chairman" because it's always been that way, the money men at the club get a bid accepted and then negotiates with his agent for wages while the player talks to the manager. People seem to think Keegan isn't involved because he said he wasn't a part of negotiations when talking about Owen and Taylor's contract extensions, because of that they've got it in their head that he's not involved in anything to do with players coming and doesn't even get to speak to them before signing, what player would sign away 4 years of their life to a club without even speaking to the manager about how he intends to use them etc? As far as I'm aware Dennis Wise is in charge of the scouts and youth set up, the only involvement he has with first team signings is to sound out the agents to see if the player is interested in the move, Tony Jimenez then negotiates the deal, that's what Mort said at the sit down with the lads from .com, the Mag etc. A list was made of players from around Europe for him to look at which is why he was spotted at a St Ettienne game looking at Bafetimbi Gomis, unless people think he knew who Gomis was which is unlikely considering he said he had to look up members of our squad when he took over here, but that is what scouts do, yet only at Newcastle does it get blown out of proportion. No wonder the press laugh at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douggy B 0 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Then the question you have to ask yourself is: If Wise is nothing more than a scout, why did he leave the number one job at Leeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Then the question you have to ask yourself is: If Wise is nothing more than a scout, why did he leave the number one job at Leeds? More money, at a guess. Poor effort btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres 0 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 ... because he moved to the PL and gets more money. Hardly rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Then the question you have to ask yourself is: If Wise is nothing more than a scout, why did he leave the number one job at Leeds? Wise isn't a scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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