Tooj 17 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wouldn't say the defenders in La Liga are all that bad. Not as physical as the PL but they are definitely not sub-standard. La Liga seems to get slammed a lot lately for being a two team league (which is true) as though the other teams are fucking Hearts and Motherwell or something. La Liga has some very good sides with some very good players apart from Barca and Real Madrid. Villarreal, Sevilla, Athletico Mad., etc etc.. Good sides which challenge for silverware in the Europa cup every year. And before someone starts with the ''The Europa league is a joke" line, I think it is a fairly good indicator of the depth of a league in terms of the comparable strength of the mid-table teams. Which is ironic really, as the Premiership has only been won by two teams since 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 I watched it on RTE and although it was in the pub, i caught one commentator comparing the spanish league to the scottish league. Watching the whole coverage on there does nothing to dispell the myth that Irish are all mad alcoholics. The post match stuff is just 4 OAPs muttering to themselves. I hate that cunt eamonn dunphy he seems like a right wanker mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 didn't realise it was a year since I started this thread.......has nobody succeeded to his crown yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wouldn't say the defenders in La Liga are all that bad. Not as physical as the PL but they are definitely not sub-standard. La Liga seems to get slammed a lot lately for being a two team league (which is true) as though the other teams are fucking Hearts and Motherwell or something. La Liga has some very good sides with some very good players apart from Barca and Real Madrid. Villarreal, Sevilla, Athletico Mad., etc etc.. Good sides which challenge for silverware in the Europa cup every year. And before someone starts with the ''The Europa league is a joke" line, I think it is a fairly good indicator of the depth of a league in terms of the comparable strength of the mid-table teams. Which is ironic really, as the Premiership has only been won by two teams since 2005. Its been contested by at least 6 sides since 2005 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Nick KP 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 FC Barcelona deserve praise too, for bringing him through the ranks. Not like spending 40 million on someone who's already a superstar (which any imbecile can do), but bringing him and so many others through the ranks. True respect to them for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2427 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wouldn't say the defenders in La Liga are all that bad. Not as physical as the PL but they are definitely not sub-standard. La Liga seems to get slammed a lot lately for being a two team league (which is true) as though the other teams are fucking Hearts and Motherwell or something. La Liga has some very good sides with some very good players apart from Barca and Real Madrid. Villarreal, Sevilla, Athletico Mad., etc etc.. Good sides which challenge for silverware in the Europa cup every year. And before someone starts with the ''The Europa league is a joke" line, I think it is a fairly good indicator of the depth of a league in terms of the comparable strength of the mid-table teams. When you consider bottom half sides like Boro and Fulham made the final I'd agree. ...and both got beat in finals off superior Spanish also-rans Sevilla also rans the same Sevilla who were leading La Liga with 3 weeks to go that season, who were only 5 points off winning it. Also rans Atletico second biggest spenders in Spain last season, with the a £40m rated striker playing up front with the World Cup player of the tournament. Also rans Must try harder. I'm confused by your point then. How's the Spanish league so much more pish than the English? I must have misread. That was kinda my point that mid-table La Liga is just as good as mid-table EPL teams. Ergo La Liga defences are just as good as PL defences for the middle block of teams. So Messi's goal tally (which is better than Ronaldo's in the same) should not be dismissed. As for him not scoring against English opposition I would call that an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 86 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Doesn't matter what Messi does he will never be as good as Ronaldo, or Maradona in my opinion Exactly, herein lies the problem. Nostalgia interrupts debate and a conclusion cannot be reached. (However I am in the Fat Ronaldo camp) Get Messi in to the Premiership where more than ever any team can beat any other team you'd see how good he is. He's going to be in the top 10 or 15 players of all time, I don't dispute that, but largely he was mediocre in the world cup, the greatest stage of all, if he conquers that, or goes to a club like Napoli and single handedly wins 2 titles on his own, then you could start classing him in Maradona's league. One thing I can say with certainty, he will never have the charisma of Maradona. As a Napoli fan, careca was a massive player for Napoli, and the entire team was not bad.... at all. Maradona was great but his argentina side of 86 would probably have had a field day against messi's team of 2010. the point i'm making is, we are making a judgement too early, messi is what 22 or 23 and as such is a far better goalscorer (numerically in terms of goals scored for the same age) than maradona already. He also plays with comparatively better footballers than maradona in his club side. I thought last nights goal was exceptional. i think he'd adapt easily to the premiership. but would have to play exactly as he does with barca. i.e. free, false nine and no 10 all rolled into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wouldn't say the defenders in La Liga are all that bad. Not as physical as the PL but they are definitely not sub-standard. La Liga seems to get slammed a lot lately for being a two team league (which is true) as though the other teams are fucking Hearts and Motherwell or something. La Liga has some very good sides with some very good players apart from Barca and Real Madrid. Villarreal, Sevilla, Athletico Mad., etc etc.. Good sides which challenge for silverware in the Europa cup every year. And before someone starts with the ''The Europa league is a joke" line, I think it is a fairly good indicator of the depth of a league in terms of the comparable strength of the mid-table teams. When you consider bottom half sides like Boro and Fulham made the final I'd agree. ...and both got beat in finals off superior Spanish also-rans Sevilla also rans the same Sevilla who were leading La Liga with 3 weeks to go that season, who were only 5 points off winning it. Also rans Atletico second biggest spenders in Spain last season, with the a £40m rated striker playing up front with the World Cup player of the tournament. Also rans Must try harder. I'm confused by your point then. How's the Spanish league so much more pish than the English? I must have misread. You used the term "also rans". Fulham and Boro are also rans. Sevilla and Atletico are the equivalent of Liverpool and Tottenham, whereas Boro and Fulham are the equivalent of Racing and Zaragoza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 You used the term "also rans". Fulham and Boro are also rans. Sevilla and Atletico are the equivalent of Liverpool and Tottenham, whereas Boro and Fulham are the equivalent of Racing and Zaragoza. The term "also rans" was referring to ANY team that was in the Europa league as opposed to the champions league really. Their "also rans" have won 4 europa leagues in the noughties, and ours have won 1. We couldn't get a team into the quarter final, Liverpool or Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Even when Messi has a relative shitter he produces some magic; last night was a good example of that. In the Copa Del Rey he beat 3/4 players and slid Pedro through with an inch-perfect (John Virgo) pass, but Pedro was marginally off. Maradona didn't win the WC until he was 26, it's too early to use that as some kind of stick to beat Messi with - fucking daft tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Doesn't matter what Messi does he will never be as good as Ronaldo, or Maradona in my opinion Exactly, herein lies the problem. Nostalgia interrupts debate and a conclusion cannot be reached. (However I am in the Fat Ronaldo camp) Get Messi in to the Premiership where more than ever any team can beat any other team you'd see how good he is. He's going to be in the top 10 or 15 players of all time, I don't dispute that, but largely he was mediocre in the world cup, the greatest stage of all, if he conquers that, or goes to a club like Napoli and single handedly wins 2 titles on his own, then you could start classing him in Maradona's league. One thing I can say with certainty, he will never have the charisma of Maradona. As a Napoli fan, careca was a massive player for Napoli, and the entire team was not bad.... at all. Maradona was great but his argentina side of 86 would probably have had a field day against messi's team of 2010. the point i'm making is, we are making a judgement too early, messi is what 22 or 23 and as such is a far better goalscorer (numerically in terms of goals scored for the same age) than maradona already. He also plays with comparatively better footballers than maradona in his club side. I thought last nights goal was exceptional. i think he'd adapt easily to the premiership. but would have to play exactly as he does with barca. i.e. free, false nine and no 10 all rolled into one. The bit in bold is total rubbish. Argentina 1986 were devastatingly mediocre, the only two other players of note were Jorge Valdano, who seeing as though you mentioned him, was no Careca, and Burruchaga who's playing career highlight was playing for someone shite like Montpellier or Nantes. Arguably along with Italy 2006, the most ordinary team to win the trophy, they really were the stereotypical one man team. I doubt they'd have even got of the group without Maradona. You're right about Careca though he was a good striker, and Ciro Ferrara a good defender and I always like Carnevale, but they weren't Milan, certainly not Barcelona 2011, and Maradona was more than just a catalyst for Npaoli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 You used the term "also rans". Fulham and Boro are also rans. Sevilla and Atletico are the equivalent of Liverpool and Tottenham, whereas Boro and Fulham are the equivalent of Racing and Zaragoza. The term "also rans" was referring to ANY team that was in the Europa league as opposed to the champions league really. Their "also rans" have won 4 europa leagues in the noughties, and ours have won 1. We couldn't get a team into the quarter final, Liverpool or Man City. Oh dear. Fulham got to the final last year. What difference does it make?!?!? Liverpool chose to largely play a reserve team. Think your arguments through, it's not all about pie charts and venn diagrams in real life sonna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Even when Messi has a relative shitter he produces some magic; last night was a good example of that. In the Copa Del Rey he beat 3/4 players and slid Pedro through with an inch-perfect (John Virgo) pass, but Pedro was marginally off. Maradona didn't win the WC until he was 26, it's too early to use that as some kind of stick to beat Messi with - fucking daft tbh. Who's using that stick? All that people have said is he's not achieved what Maradona has yet. If he does fair play to him, doubt he will though, that's just my opinion. He's got a chance of a longer career than Maradona though, because he's happier playing Kings of War 10 on the PS3 than he is sniffing toot off a hookers tit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The 2010 team was an embarrassment to Argentina, the fans were just glad to qualify in the end. Something to do with the manager.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The 2010 team was an embarrassment to Argentina, the fans were just glad to qualify in the end. Something to do with the manager.... Yes brilliant footballers always make amazing managers don't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The 2010 team was an embarrassment to Argentina, the fans were just glad to qualify in the end. Something to do with the manager.... Yes brilliant footballers always make amazing managers don't they. It was funny though to see an insane person managing a national team. As you mentioned his drug use, does that not reflect badly on Maradona when compared to Messi? Would he have had half the stamina or speed without his marching white powder? Would he have had the energy to beat Terry Fenwick had he not snorted 3 ounces of coco before the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The 2010 team was an embarrassment to Argentina, the fans were just glad to qualify in the end. Something to do with the manager.... Yes brilliant footballers always make amazing managers don't they. It was funny though to see an insane person managing a national team. As you mentioned his drug use, does that not reflect badly on Maradona when compared to Messi? Would he have had half the stamina or speed without his marching white powder? Would he have had the energy to beat Terry Fenwick had he not snorted 3 ounces of coco before the game? It's funny you mentioned that, I was just thinking about that a couple of minutes ago, if he had any toot up his snout after that goal. I mean if you do the charlie often it's effects are really intense for about 10 to 15 minutes,he could've went to Billardo "just away for a piss" just before coming back out because Maradona's goals against England were in the 49th and 53rd minute iirc. You might have a point about that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 You used the term "also rans". Fulham and Boro are also rans. Sevilla and Atletico are the equivalent of Liverpool and Tottenham, whereas Boro and Fulham are the equivalent of Racing and Zaragoza. The term "also rans" was referring to ANY team that was in the Europa league as opposed to the champions league really. Their "also rans" have won 4 europa leagues in the noughties, and ours have won 1. We couldn't get a team into the quarter final, Liverpool or Man City. Oh dear. Fulham got to the final last year. What difference does it make?!?!? Liverpool chose to largely play a reserve team. Think your arguments through, it's not all about pie charts and venn diagrams in real life sonna. It's the only way of comapring like with like innit? The fact our teams throw in the towel rather than even try to compete is no defence. Fulham qualified for Europa in 7th and currently sit 9th...and got beat in the final off Athletico...who currently sit 7th...and last season finished 9th. Seem very comparable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 We are also-rans too, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Messi is a fantastic player and I think he will be up there with the best that have ever played the game. Maradona was a marvellous player who apart from 86 had some ordinary world cup campaigns, I think to be a true world all time great you have to take a world cup by storm, something that Messi has yet to do but given time and the right national team manager I think he will. If you truly love football you should enjoy watching Messi play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Name Here Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions. Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t. There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona. Edited April 28, 2011 by Your Name Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions. Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t. There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona. Absolutely spot on mate. To be fair it's just the younguns who are stuck to their linnen about him, but very well put, agree with everything you have said. Messi hasn't got the charisma of Maradona never will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions. Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t. There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona. I'm not saying Messi is better than or going to be as good as Maradona (he was probably the 2nd best player ever though, tbf, maybe even the best ever) but when you compare what they've achieved at similar ages, then Messi is ahead of him. Maradona's 82 WC campaign was as disastrous from a personal and team pov as Messi's was last time round. Both about the same age too iirc. I take your point about turning average teams into champions but Napoli had some very good players, Careca and Ferrara for example. Probably a more level playing field then as well (I know southern clubs hadn't won the scudetto before but you were playing in an era where teams like Nottingham Forest, Steau Bucharest and Aston Villa had been European Champions in the preceding 10 years). The '86 world cup stands alone as a great, almost single-handed achievement though and I think Maradona did have a certain unique something as a footballing talent. I'm not sure Beckenbauer or Cruyff are that far ahead of Messi mind, and they didn't exactly play in poor teams either, did they? Weren't they 'just' the icing on the cake too? Edited April 29, 2011 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38779 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 So, to start a day of utter ridiculousness in a proper manner… Who you rather have in your dream NUFC XI , Messi or The Portugese Spunkbubble? ©Polish Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2929 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) So, to start a day of utter ridiculousness in a proper manner… Who you rather have in your dream NUFC XI , Messi or The Portugese Spunkbubble? ©Polish Nick Wouldn't it just be more fun to make a messi with one's own spunkbubble [/jimbo] Edited April 29, 2011 by sammynb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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