Islamophobia in the US

[Guest alex]

i'm going to play devil's advocate.

 

let's forget the media hype regarding this story for a minute.

 

isn't the idea of a mosque being built there a teeny tiny bit insensitive?

 

just seems to be fanning the flames for exactly this kind of over-reaction in the right wing american media.

 

insensitive ?

 

It's a fucking disgrace.

It's not at the actual site though.

 

it's close enough to cause mass hysteria.

Is it? Or is it just because certain parties are lying and suggesting it's on the actual site?

[LeazesMag 0]

My general anti-religion view aside, I wouldn't blame the Muslims if they gave up - they were /are trying to build a centre to build inter-faith relations and that's the reaction.

 

As HF said, they are reacting all over the country to Mosques - so much for freedom of religion.

 

it would be better if they did give up.

 

As for "shocking", remember PC Keith Blakelock ? I hope all you lot hurled your mass protest and voices of reason towards Winston Silcott, Mark Braithwaite and Engin Raghip and told them what you thought of the error of their ways and touched their guilty complex and human side.

 

Fitted up and acquitted.

 

which doesn't mean they are actually innocent when some smartarse lawyer gets you off such charges on a technicality.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

The GOP otherwise known as the Republican party. Is that 'en masse' enough for you?

 

Gingrich and Palin stirring the tea party fervour doesn't constitute a serious attack on the freedom of muslims to get acquainted with a mat and a Quu'uuran. They get more publicity than they deserve rather like Nick Griffin in England.

[LeazesMag 0]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

[ChezGiven 0]

The GOP otherwise known as the Republican party. Is that 'en masse' enough for you?

 

Gingrich and Palin stirring the tea party fervour doesn't constitute a serious attack on the freedom of muslims to get acquainted with a mat and a Quu'uuran. They get more publicity than they deserve rather like Nick Griffin in England.

You asked for an example of this sort of behaviour which i defined as intolerance. The US right-wing is amongst the most intolerant in the world.

 

Nick Griffin doesnt get his own show on Fox (Sky News) either.

[Guest alex]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

Try being a bit more specific.

[NJS 3986]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

 

I would love it if no church/temple/mosque of any kind were ever built anywhere ever again, but stopping anyone from doing so is even worse. Do you really want to legislate against people's beliefs?

[LeazesMag 0]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

Try being a bit more specific.

 

basically Alex, I would be accused of being racist as in the discussion about Tamla Motown, and I just can't be arsed. My opinions on things like this are well known now. If you don't accept a county and the way it is, don't fuckin go there, there are plenty of countries in this world for people of certain beliefs to live where they are best suited.

[Billy Whitehurst 791]

So these people are up in arms about there being a mosque at ground zero even though its not a mosque and not at ground zero.

 

Still, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good old bit of islamophobia.

[acrossthepond 707]

My earlier comment was sarcastic. Safety wink next time.

 

I would not agree with the idea of building a mosque "near" or even "at" Ground Zero could possibly be "insensitive." A mosque is meant to be a house of God, where people are equal and at brotherhood. How could that be insensitive? (And, as previously mentioned, "mosque" isn't even really what this proposed structure is.)

 

I do agree to some extent that it was a terrible idea, however, and if I were in charge of building mosques I would not have chosen the location in question. It was just all too easy for unscrupulous people who want to make political hay out of their racism to jump on the idea. Now they have nationwide media platforms from which to spout their hatred and lies and considering the general level of ignorance in the United States, they will have much more success in undermining what the Cordoba Group is attempting to do than if they had never chosen a location.

 

So, ironically, the choice to build an inter-faith community centre has led to poorer inter-faith relations. If they had chosen a spot five blocks away, nobody would have batted an eye. I question who they hired as their PR people. America is not short of Muslim councils and pan-faith organizations who could have advised the Cordoba Group, correctly, to stay away from that area.

 

It is an injustice that the ignorance of some people prevents Muslims from being able to build their centres wherever they like in a "free country", but the greater injustice will turn out to be the number of people turned against us by the flagrant lies and negative spin put on this by the right-wing media. It should never have been proposed.

[Guest alex]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

Try being a bit more specific.

 

basically Alex, I would be accused of being racist as in the discussion about Tamla Motown, and I just can't be arsed. My opinions on things like this are well known now. If you don't accept a county and the way it is, don't fuckin go there, there are plenty of countries in this world for people of certain beliefs to live where they are best suited.

They aren't doing anything that contravenes the law and the president of the country in question backs what they're trying to do. Apart from the obvious fact the USA is almost exclusively comprised of immigrants and their descendants anyway. It's actually the people who are protesting against this who are going against the constitution of the USA (as I understand it). I can understand why this is a sensitive issue but I think it's pretty appalling that an attempt to build bridges between communities has been hijacked, if you pardon the pun, by people with a racist agenda.

[Park Life 70]

My general anti-religion view aside, I wouldn't blame the Muslims if they gave up - they were /are trying to build a centre to build inter-faith relations and that's the reaction.

 

As HF said, they are reacting all over the country to Mosques - so much for freedom of religion.

 

Do you care to cite examples of this sort of behaviour en masse across the states? What I'm insinuating is I doubt you'll find evidence that the majority of a populace numbering over 300 million are taking part in this sort of rabid nonsense, and if a relatively small protest like this breaks your heart in such a manner what do you propose? So much for freedom of speech...

 

Happens every weekend in deeeeeeeeep South apparently.

[Park Life 70]

The GOP otherwise known as the Republican party. Is that 'en masse' enough for you?

 

Gingrich and Palin stirring the tea party fervour doesn't constitute a serious attack on the freedom of muslims to get acquainted with a mat and a Quu'uuran. They get more publicity than they deserve rather like Nick Griffin in England.

 

20 million Muslims in America, it's about time they stopped pissing about with landmark buildings and shit and got themselves armed.

[ChezGiven 0]

My general anti-religion view aside, I wouldn't blame the Muslims if they gave up - they were /are trying to build a centre to build inter-faith relations and that's the reaction.

 

As HF said, they are reacting all over the country to Mosques - so much for freedom of religion.

 

Do you care to cite examples of this sort of behaviour en masse across the states? What I'm insinuating is I doubt you'll find evidence that the majority of a populace numbering over 300 million are taking part in this sort of rabid nonsense, and if a relatively small protest like this breaks your heart in such a manner what do you propose? So much for freedom of speech...

 

Happens every weekend in deeeeeeeeep South apparently.

 

He takes things quite seriously for assilleekunt.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

You asked for an example of this sort of behaviour which i defined as intolerance. The US right-wing is amongst the most intolerant in the world.

 

Nick Griffin doesnt get his own show on Fox (Sky News) either.

 

I think you will find there are quite a few 'wings' around the world that are more intolerant currently than the GOP. I wouldn't question that the US right-wing contains a worrying amount of bigotry and the rest of it but I would much rather live under their rule than that of the Ayatollah or Kim Jong Il or any number of theocratic and totalitarian despots that linger around the globe. Although the U.S. constitution has been violated more than I care to mention, the first amendment is still adhered to with reasonable vigour and I would wager that you have greater freedom of expression in certain states than in England at present.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[acrossthepond 707]

You asked for an example of this sort of behaviour which i defined as intolerance. The US right-wing is amongst the most intolerant in the world.

 

Nick Griffin doesnt get his own show on Fox (Sky News) either.

 

I think you will find there are quite a few 'wings' around the world that are more intolerant currently than the GOP. I wouldn't question that the US right-wing contains a worrying amount of bigotry and the rest of it but I would much rather live under their rule than that of the Ayatollah or Kim Jong Il or any number of theocratic and totalitarian despots that linger around the globe. Although the U.S. constitution has been violated more than I care to mention, the first amendment is still adhered to with reasonable vigour and I would wager that you have greater freedom of expression in certain states than in England at present.

 

Gimmicky name, trolling posts, complete strawman arguments and false comparisons - did he say that the GOP is more intolerant than totalitarians? No? So why'd you make the comparison?

 

Who might you be?

[Park Life 70]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

 

About half a milion from the indian sub-continent fought on our side in WW2.

[Billy Castell 0]

Thig is Muslims and the more loony Christians over in the USA worship the same fucking God. Just in different ways.

 

America has a lot of freedoms written into its constitution, but it has always been a culturally intollerant and right wing place. You can criticise the country, Christianity etc., but you'll recieve a right shitstorm if you do. Over there, they seem to worship the nation like a religion, much like the Romans or even the Nazis. So if you point out faults, you are an enemy of America.

[Dr Gloom 19844]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

 

 

i agree; it is ironic the way the islamofacists have so many allies in liberal western society.

 

if i was a new yorker, i'd have strong feelings about a mosque being built so close to the site of the world's biggest ever terrorist atrocity.

 

clearly they're not all terrorists. but shouldn't moderate muslims be a bit more clued up as to the reaction this move would surely trigger?

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

"Gimmicky name, trolling posts, complete strawman arguments and false comparisons - did he say that the GOP is more intolerant than totalitarians? No? So why'd you make the comparison?

 

Who might you be?"

 

 

He said the US right wing is amongst the most intolerant in the world ie up there with the Taliban. The U.S. right wing wouldn't make it into the top echelons of horrible bastards by quite a margin. I think that's a fair point on my part, there's no need at all for you to blow up like that.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[acrossthepond 707]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

 

 

i agree; it is ironic the way the islamofacists have so many allies in liberal western society.

 

if i was a new yorker, i'd have strong feelings about a mosque being built so close to the site of the world's biggest ever terrorist atrocity.

 

clearly they're not all terrorists. but shouldn't moderate muslims be a bit more clued up as to the reaction this move would surely trigger?

 

This is a good way to hammer home the point I was making earlier.

 

Yes, moderate muslims definitely should be more clued up as to the reaction that would follow.

 

But no, New Yorkers - and I am one now, for better or worse - should not have reservations about a "mosque" built "so close" to the WTC site.

 

The real issue to be addressed here is that they - and most of America's right wingers - do have those reservations. That's the problem that needs fixing, because that's intolerance.

[Park Life 70]

Thig is Muslims and the more loony Christians over in the USA worship the same fucking God. Just in different ways.

 

America has a lot of freedoms written into its constitution, but it has always been a culturally intollerant and right wing place. You can enicriticise the country, Christianity etc., but you'll recieve a right shitstorm if you do. Over there, they seem to worship the nation like a religion, much like the Romans or even the Nazis. So if you point out faults, you are an enemy of America.

 

...and within miniutes of opening your gob after the 5th pint.

[Guest alex]

Tbf, you obviously have strong feelings about it anyway Dan so don't play that 'if I was a New Yorker' card.

[Park Life 70]

why do some people always take the anti-west/anti-establishment side to discussions like this. How naive are they, do they really just no get human behaviour. These fuckers are cunts man, stop defending them because they would not defend you if the situation was reversed.

 

 

i agree; it is ironic the way the islamofacists have so many allies in liberal western society.

 

if i was a new yorker, i'd have strong feelings about a mosque being built so close to the site of the world's biggest ever terrorist atrocity.

 

clearly they're not all terrorists. but shouldn't moderate muslims be a bit more clued up as to the reaction this move would surely trigger?

 

Think muslims around the world have been TOO moderate. The need to take a leaf out of Israel's book.

[NJS 3986]

"Gimmicky name, trolling posts, complete strawman arguments and false comparisons - did he say that the GOP is more intolerant than totalitarians? No? So why'd you make the comparison?

 

Who might you be?"

 

 

He said the US right wing is amongst the most intolerant in the world ie up there with the Taliban. The U.S. right wing wouldn't make it into the top echelons of horrible bastards by quite a margin. I think that's a fair point on my part, there's no need at all for you to blow up like that.

 

I'd put Coulter, Bachman, Palin and any of the Fox pundits up there with anyone else.