Carroll omitted from England U21s

[Meenzer 14136]

When I think of Maradona, I think of his charity work tbh.

 

Maradona is a one off and you can't compare Carroll to him tbf.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing.

[JonTheMag 4]

Its stupid to write someone off when theyre only 21. Apparently when Giggs and Lee Sharpe were younger, they were both getting a little wild, not to the extent of Carroll by any means, but Ferguson went and had a talk with them. Giggs adapted and became who he is, Sharpe basically faded. It is possible to turn it around, and wor Joey seems to be an example of that.

 

Furthermore, what the fuck do you know about his personality? I assume youre basing this revelation of yours purely on the stuff read in the news and seeing Carroll on the pitch and in interviews. You have no insight into how his mind works that should lead you to this conclusion. And I'd rather have Carroll doing what he is than going about like Stephen Ireland being a twat of the first order.

 

 

Its not really stupid to write someone off at 21... history would show that most players who are in and out of trouble and enjoy a boozy trouble strewed lifestyle dont go on to become top top players. Yeah people can reform their characters, but usually they are the ones who weren't so off the rails to begin with.

 

Yeah Barton may have turned it round a lot but he missed out on a lot of football and his development has suffered... are you telling me he is the player he could have been?

 

What do i know about Carrolls personality? Well I dont know the guy but its clear to see he's hardly a shrinking violet... there's a reason he's in the papers and court and its not some sort of journalisitc vendetta against him. 3 assualts, booze and coke fuelled parties... regardless of whether he's dabbled in drugs is irrelevant... trouble follows the lad... this isn't the behaviour of a professional athlete, its the behaviour of someone who thinks he's made it already, and that my freidn spells trouble ahead.

 

A call up to the England squad now would just further fuel his own self worth and ego... it certainly wouldnt do him any favours thats for sure!

[Guest alex]

I don't get why Ferguson is such a legend at Everton btw.

[Meenzer 14136]

Its stupid to write someone off when theyre only 21. Apparently when Giggs and Lee Sharpe were younger, they were both getting a little wild, not to the extent of Carroll by any means, but Ferguson went and had a talk with them. Giggs adapted and became who he is, Sharpe basically faded. It is possible to turn it around, and wor Joey seems to be an example of that.

 

Furthermore, what the fuck do you know about his personality? I assume youre basing this revelation of yours purely on the stuff read in the news and seeing Carroll on the pitch and in interviews. You have no insight into how his mind works that should lead you to this conclusion. And I'd rather have Carroll doing what he is than going about like Stephen Ireland being a twat of the first order.

 

 

Its not really stupid to write someone off at 21... history would show that most players who are in and out of trouble and enjoy a boozy trouble strewed lifestyle dont go on to become top top players. Yeah people can reform their characters, but usually they are the ones who weren't so off the rails to begin with.

 

Yeah Barton may have turned it round a lot but he missed out on a lot of football and his development has suffered... are you telling me he is the player he could have been?

 

What do i know about Carrolls personality? Well I dont know the guy but its clear to see he's hardly a shrinking violet... there's a reason he's in the papers and court and its not some sort of journalisitc vendetta against him. 3 assualts, booze and coke fuelled parties... regardless of whether he's dabbled in drugs is irrelevant... trouble follows the lad... this isn't the behaviour of a professional athlete, its the behaviour of someone who thinks he's made it already, and that my freidn spells trouble ahead.

 

A call up to the England squad now would just further fuel his own self worth and ego... it certainly wouldnt do him any favours thats for sure!

 

 

Stop on

[ajax_andy 0]

Sorry what I meant was that he wont continue to develop... there are plenty of players who develop to a certain level and then stop due to their mentality not being what it should be.... hence the comment about Scholes etc still learning the game and improving well on in their careers.

 

He has obviously developed from last year else he'd not have the goals or some of the performances he as done this season... my point was that will he continue to develop at the rate he has been, or just stop, as he will believe he has already made it?

 

Well no, he won't, because you just said he won't in the previous paragraph. Or do you not consider yourself to be a reliable enough source?

 

 

The question mark was there to make it open for debate... rather than saying i'm right ner ner ner ner ner

[ajax_andy 0]

When I think of Maradona, I think of his charity work tbh.

 

Maradona is a one off and you can't compare Carroll to him tbf.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing.

 

 

Care to debate the rest of that post then? Or are you just gonna make smart arse comments?

[ajax_andy 0]

Its stupid to write someone off when theyre only 21. Apparently when Giggs and Lee Sharpe were younger, they were both getting a little wild, not to the extent of Carroll by any means, but Ferguson went and had a talk with them. Giggs adapted and became who he is, Sharpe basically faded. It is possible to turn it around, and wor Joey seems to be an example of that.

 

Furthermore, what the fuck do you know about his personality? I assume youre basing this revelation of yours purely on the stuff read in the news and seeing Carroll on the pitch and in interviews. You have no insight into how his mind works that should lead you to this conclusion. And I'd rather have Carroll doing what he is than going about like Stephen Ireland being a twat of the first order.

 

 

Its not really stupid to write someone off at 21... history would show that most players who are in and out of trouble and enjoy a boozy trouble strewed lifestyle dont go on to become top top players. Yeah people can reform their characters, but usually they are the ones who weren't so off the rails to begin with.

 

Yeah Barton may have turned it round a lot but he missed out on a lot of football and his development has suffered... are you telling me he is the player he could have been?

 

What do i know about Carrolls personality? Well I dont know the guy but its clear to see he's hardly a shrinking violet... there's a reason he's in the papers and court and its not some sort of journalisitc vendetta against him. 3 assualts, booze and coke fuelled parties... regardless of whether he's dabbled in drugs is irrelevant... trouble follows the lad... this isn't the behaviour of a professional athlete, its the behaviour of someone who thinks he's made it already, and that my freidn spells trouble ahead.

 

A call up to the England squad now would just further fuel his own self worth and ego... it certainly wouldnt do him any favours thats for sure!

 

 

HAHA OOPS!!!!

[Monkeys Fist 39170]

I don't get why Ferguson is such a legend at Everton btw.

Honorary President of Toffe Dippers Pigeon Loft Association.

[Guest alex]

Ajax_Andy's alreet tbf. I don't think he's on the wind-up.

[Guest alex]

I don't get why Ferguson is such a legend at Everton btw.

Honorary President of Toffe Dippers Pigeon Loft Association.

You'd think they'd hate him tbh. No respect for the fine art of burglary.

[ajax_andy 0]

I don't get why Ferguson is such a legend at Everton btw.

 

 

We were epically shit, we just hard a load of yard dogs with no skills, the players looked lost and needed direction... then this unknown striker joined with a bad rep, wore his heart on his sleeve, bullied the opposition, dragged the club up and the players with it, gave us a player to admire and worship.

 

Ok so his career stalled with injuries and he got sent off way too much, but back then we didnt have the likes of Arteta, Cahill etc... he was a rare bright spark in a very depressing time and is definately my favourite player of all time.

[ajax_andy 0]

Ajax_Andy's alreet tbf. I don't think he's on the wind-up.

 

Haha cheers Alex, and no i'm not on a wind up... I just think Carroll is heading down the wrong path at a very rapid rate. I also think its a big shame as he's clearly talented and we're a national team short of proper strikers.

[Guest alex]

I don't get why Ferguson is such a legend at Everton btw.

 

 

We were epically shit, we just hard a load of yard dogs with no skills, the players looked lost and needed direction... then this unknown striker joined with a bad rep, wore his heart on his sleeve, bullied the opposition, dragged the club up and the players with it, gave us a player to admire and worship.

 

Ok so his career stalled with injuries and he got sent off way too much, but back then we didnt have the likes of Arteta, Cahill etc... he was a rare bright spark in a very depressing time and is definately my favourite player of all time.

Fair enough. I liked him but he was always crocked and (as I seem to remember) he was knackered for you a lot. Very good footballer btw. I think people underestimate his touch and technique.

[ajax_andy 0]

Oh and I dont think its just Carroll either so dont think i'm picking on him only... its a problem in our game at all clubs and levels... its just Carroll is the one currently being touted for an England call up.

 

We've had plent of these ourselves... Franny Jeffers being the main one, but also Rooney to an extent too.

[Guest alex]

Ajax_Andy's alreet tbf. I don't think he's on the wind-up.

 

Haha cheers Alex, and no i'm not on a wind up... I just think Carroll is heading down the wrong path at a very rapid rate. I also think its a big shame as he's clearly talented and we're a national team short of proper strikers.

Not sure he's that bad but I share your concerns. I'd quite like to see him left out the England squad too. Mainly for selfish reasons.

[ajax_andy 0]

I don't get why Ferguson is such a legend at Everton btw.

 

 

We were epically shit, we just hard a load of yard dogs with no skills, the players looked lost and needed direction... then this unknown striker joined with a bad rep, wore his heart on his sleeve, bullied the opposition, dragged the club up and the players with it, gave us a player to admire and worship.

 

Ok so his career stalled with injuries and he got sent off way too much, but back then we didnt have the likes of Arteta, Cahill etc... he was a rare bright spark in a very depressing time and is definately my favourite player of all time.

Fair enough. I liked him but he was always crocked and (as I seem to remember) he was knackered for you a lot. Very good footballer btw. I think people underestimate his touch and technique.

 

 

Before he joined the Toon his injury record wasn't that bad tbh... he probs missed more games through suspension than anything else lol.

 

However his second spell at the club was a bit of a disaster due to the injuries... we'd moved on as a team too so maybe he wasn't ever going to have the same impact. When he 1st joined though it really was something special.

[Meenzer 14136]

When I think of Maradona, I think of his charity work tbh.

 

Maradona is a one off and you can't compare Carroll to him tbf.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing.

 

 

Care to debate the rest of that post then? Or are you just gonna make smart arse comments?

 

Only carrying on what you started tbh.

 

How can any of us know what any player would become without their upbringing or the way they behave as young adults, least of all those with immensely difficult backgrounds like a Maradona or a Garrincha? If they didn't have that dark side to their personalities then they might have faded into mediocrity as adults, never been driven towards sport in the first place, not achieved a fraction of what they did on the field of play. Or they might have done exactly that anyway. Nobody knows, least of all the likes of us, though I suppose this thread shows we've both made up our minds to one extent or another. It just seems incredibly churlish to puncture the balloon of a young lad whose career is on a positive trajectory by damning him before he's even had the chance to properly damn himself.

[ajax_andy 0]

Ajax_Andy's alreet tbf. I don't think he's on the wind-up.

 

Haha cheers Alex, and no i'm not on a wind up... I just think Carroll is heading down the wrong path at a very rapid rate. I also think its a big shame as he's clearly talented and we're a national team short of proper strikers.

Not sure he's that bad but I share your concerns. I'd quite like to see him left out the England squad too. Mainly for selfish reasons.

 

 

Aye I know where you're coming from there... international duty is just extra strain on the players... we've had a few crocked that way so sometimes its better for them not to get the call.

 

We've got a young lad called Ross Barkley who's being talked about in the Rooney/Rodwell bracket, went away on international duty recently and came back with a double leg fracture... sometimes young players are better off not playing I think!

[Meenzer 14136]

I'd quite like to see him left out the England squad too. Mainly for selfish reasons.

 

That I can get behind, obviously.

[ajax_andy 0]

When I think of Maradona, I think of his charity work tbh.

 

Maradona is a one off and you can't compare Carroll to him tbf.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing.

 

 

Care to debate the rest of that post then? Or are you just gonna make smart arse comments?

 

Only carrying on what you started tbh.

 

How can any of us know what any player would become without their upbringing or the way they behave as young adults, least of all those with immensely difficult backgrounds like a Maradona or a Garrincha? If they didn't have that dark side to their personalities then they might have faded into mediocrity as adults, never been driven towards sport in the first place, not achieved a fraction of what they did on the field of play. Or they might have done exactly that anyway. Nobody knows, least of all the likes of us, though I suppose this thread shows we've both made up our minds to one extent or another. It just seems incredibly churlish to puncture the balloon of a young lad whose career is on a positive trajectory by damning him before he's even had the chance to properly damn himself.

 

 

Aye some good points you raise there tbh... although not sure Carroll's upbringing would be quite as harsh as Maradona growing up on the mean streets of Argentina lol

 

Dont you worry as a Toon fan though that your brightest prospect seems to be heading on a path of self destruction (if you ignore his current form on the pitch)?

[Guest alex]

Ajax_Andy's alreet tbf. I don't think he's on the wind-up.

 

Haha cheers Alex, and no i'm not on a wind up... I just think Carroll is heading down the wrong path at a very rapid rate. I also think its a big shame as he's clearly talented and we're a national team short of proper strikers.

Not sure he's that bad but I share your concerns. I'd quite like to see him left out the England squad too. Mainly for selfish reasons.

 

 

Aye I know where you're coming from there... international duty is just extra strain on the players... we've had a few crocked that way so sometimes its better for them not to get the call.

 

We've got a young lad called Ross Barkley who's being talked about in the Rooney/Rodwell bracket, went away on international duty recently and came back with a double leg fracture... sometimes young players are better off not playing I think!

As well, I think at times last season he got a bit Billy Big Bollocks and stopped grafting so much. He's not half the player when he plays like that. He's actually got pace and athleticism that someone like Crouch could only dream of (not dissing Crouch who is a canny player btw, but different). Sometimes he strolls about though and doesn't use it. Not lately mind.

[Meenzer 14136]

Dont you worry as a Toon fan though that your brightest prospect seems to be heading on a path of self destruction (if you ignore his current form on the pitch)?

 

I think the crucial difference is the "path of self destruction" interpretation - I'd only be willing to call it that if I believed half of the stories about him were more than just obvious tabloid/local press bollocks aimed at selling a few shitrags. If the same stories are cropping up in five years' time then that might be a different matter, but right now he's an easy target who's getting a bit of bad press and putting in some relegation-busting performances. I can deal with that for now.

[ajax_andy 0]

Ajax_Andy's alreet tbf. I don't think he's on the wind-up.

 

Haha cheers Alex, and no i'm not on a wind up... I just think Carroll is heading down the wrong path at a very rapid rate. I also think its a big shame as he's clearly talented and we're a national team short of proper strikers.

Not sure he's that bad but I share your concerns. I'd quite like to see him left out the England squad too. Mainly for selfish reasons.

 

 

Aye I know where you're coming from there... international duty is just extra strain on the players... we've had a few crocked that way so sometimes its better for them not to get the call.

 

We've got a young lad called Ross Barkley who's being talked about in the Rooney/Rodwell bracket, went away on international duty recently and came back with a double leg fracture... sometimes young players are better off not playing I think!

As well, I think at times last season he got a bit Billy Big Bollocks and stopped grafting so much. He's not half the player when he plays like that. He's actually got pace and athleticism that someone like Crouch could only dream of (not dissing Crouch who is a canny player btw, but different). Sometimes he strolls about though and doesn't use it. Not lately mind.

 

I think thats the thing with carroll, he's got a lot of tools at his disposal when he cares to use them... Crouch on the other hand is an effective player but isn't very diverse in the tools he has.

[ajax_andy 0]

Dont you worry as a Toon fan though that your brightest prospect seems to be heading on a path of self destruction (if you ignore his current form on the pitch)?

 

I think the crucial difference is the "path of self destruction" interpretation - I'd only be willing to call it that if I believed half of the stories about him were more than just obvious tabloid/local press bollocks aimed at selling a few shitrags. If the same stories are cropping up in five years' time then that might be a different matter, but right now he's an easy target who's getting a bit of bad press and putting in some relegation-busting performances. I can deal with that for now.

 

 

Fair enough... I know what the press are like, but equally there's no smoke without fire... they might blow stuff up out of proportion, but there's a reason why its him and not another player getting a lot of attention at the moment.

[Tom 13915]

Seamus Coleman will never amount to anything because he's dirty, same with Rodwell who's been said to enjoy a bit of a party. They will probably both be in ruins in a year.