Isegrim 8893 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Christmas Tree said: The thick racist lot have always been there and always will. They’ll never take hold in this country though as they are doing in Europe. It’s just not British. They already took hold of your country because without the likes of Farage et al Brexit would never have happened. And while not all of the 17.4 m people who voted to leave are genuine racists the core of the decision- to shut out foreigners and blame them for things not being right in the UK - has been fundamentally racist. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14696 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 How many Tory MPs will be subject to this shit show? As tories go, you’d have to say Dominic Grieve isn’t typical & as ex attorney general is a hugely experienced MP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26588 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 But Rayvin told us that these people can be educated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 We're back to a purge then are we? They aren't going to just die off either, they have their hooks into younger people as well through alternative media. It's going unchallenged. The education needs to start before this point for sure, but our indifference combined with the cynical opportunism of the right, has brought us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30559 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Isegrim said: They already took hold of your country because without the likes of Farage et al Brexit would never have happened. And while not all of the 17.4 m people who voted to leave are genuine racists the core of the decision- to shut out foreigners and blame them for things not being right in the UK - has been fundamentally racist. Also, when it suits CT, his ‘team’ have won but, at the same time, he thinks he’s completely detached from UKIP et al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14696 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 The Tory party membership votes for its next leader and signs are it will be Johnson. At that point we’ll disappear down the rabbit hole we’ve been stood staring at for three years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30559 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rayvin said: We're back to a purge then are we? They aren't going to just die off either, they have their hooks into younger people as well through alternative media. It's going unchallenged. The education needs to start before this point for sure, but our indifference combined with the cynical opportunism of the right, has brought us here. How about a political system where a wider range of views are represented? The likes of UKIP having a few dozen MPs may be unpalatable but could it by any worse than the sham of democracy we currently have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: The Tory party membership votes for its next leader and signs are it will be Johnson. At that point we’ll disappear down the rabbit hole we’ve been stood staring at for three years The parliamentary Conservative party need to block Johnson at source. But can they? They need two candidates to do so, very difficult. We are in even more serious trouble if this man achieves power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 16 hours ago, Meenzer said: Good thread, regrettably Gisela Stewart interviewed by Marr about this. Marr did his best but the slippery shithouse still got off the hook. Apparently Vote Leave can't defend itself from allegations now because "they have destroyed the data". So we have proven illegality, overspending, data harvesting, and very likely Russian interference. The most corrupt campaign ever seen in UK politics, which would invalidate a mandatory referendum. But because its advisory, nothing happens. "Democracy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26588 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 48 minutes ago, Alex said: How about a political system where a wider range of views are represented? The likes of UKIP having a few dozen MPs may be unpalatable but could it by any worse than the sham of democracy we currently have? If that were the case then we may well have had Brexit before now had UKIP ended up with the balance of power in any previous parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30559 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, ewerk said: If that were the case then we may well have had Brexit before now had UKIP ended up with the balance of power in any previous parliament. Maybe. Maybe a lot more people would vote Green or Lib Dem, for example, if their vote actually counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 50 minutes ago, Alex said: How about a political system where a wider range of views are represented? The likes of UKIP having a few dozen MPs may be unpalatable but could it by any worse than the sham of democracy we currently have? Sure but isn't that also giving them a platform? I mean i totally agree but that's the kind of thing we need to do alongside better political education possibly at school level. I just dont feel like continuing to ignore it is an option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30559 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) And in your scenario, had it happened earlier, we might’ve been back in now had their lies been exposed. Whatever the case the current system isn’t fit for purpose. Edit @ewerk Edited March 31, 2019 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19882 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Poetic Edited March 31, 2019 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34975 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Labour whipping for common market 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Just now, Gemmill said: Labour whipping for common market 2.0. Good. I'd love this to go through, are there enough tories for it though? I think the PV lot are wrong to oppose this, for me it's an ideal compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26588 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 It's fucking pointless. It's a nod to the thick as fuck Brexiters saying, 'there you go, we're out'. While it leaves us politically much weaker. I'll take it as an option provided it goes to the public for the final say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, ewerk said: It's fucking pointless. It's a nod to the thick as fuck Brexiters saying, 'there you go, we're out'. While it leaves us politically much weaker. I'll take it as an option provided it goes to the public for the final say. It's not pointless. Firstly, it fulfils the referendum result. It gets us out of about 75% of EU laws. Out of CAP and Fisheries. Out of the political structures, important to some here but essential now for the EU I think. Independent representation at the WTO. Less money to the EU. It can be an adaptive framework which will evolve over time. So we don't get a veto or a direct say in EU law (although we would be heavyweight lobbyists). I'll ask you the same as any Brexiter, name me a regulation you disagree with? Our core sovereignty will be unchanged, because we've always had it. Being in the EU to shape it isn't an option any more. Give me all the benefits, which this does, and I'd snap your hand off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26588 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 How does it get us out of 75% of EU laws? Why do we need to be out of CAP and fisheries? And our representation isn't about EU regulations, it's about a seat at the top table and being able to help shape the future of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, Renton said: It's not pointless. Firstly, it fulfils the referendum result. It gets us out of about 75% of EU laws. Out of CAP and Fisheries. Out of the political structures, important to some here but essential now for the EU I think. Independent representation at the WTO. Less money to the EU. It can be an adaptive framework which will evolve over time. So we don't get a veto or a direct say in EU law (although we would be heavyweight lobbyists). I'll ask you the same as any Brexiter, name me a regulation you disagree with? Our core sovereignty will be unchanged, because we've always had it. Being in the EU to shape it isn't an option any more. Give me all the benefits, which this does, and I'd snap your hand off. This for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26588 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Why don’t you both suck my dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14112 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Not without a backstop. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, ewerk said: How does it get us out of 75% of EU laws? Why do we need to be out of CAP and fisheries? And our representation isn't about EU regulations, it's about a seat at the top table and being able to help shape the future of Europe. Its a fact about 75% of EU aquis does not apply to the EFTA nations. But EU laws are reglatory in nature anyway, and they ensure the best product standards in the world. I trust the EU to continue making good legislation without us. Worth pointing out, even if we hard Brexit, we still have to practicaly comply with their standards anyway as they are effectively international, and they usually surpass US equivalents . Take the new speed limiters in cars. We are adopting that regardless of what happens . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 I actually do get ewerks' point in terms of the practicalities. Soft brexit is basically strategically pointless. The political situation surrounding us make it a viable choice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Soft brexit is basically strategically pointless. Worse than pointless but sadly inevitable now. Your life won't change though under Norway plus. It will under any other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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