Europe --- In or Out

[Sonatine 10021]

 

 

[Dr Gloom 19845]

38 minutes ago, Woiuytre said:

You have an interesting discussion here, I am new to the forum and I have a question. How often do you visit football stadiums? Do you like to travel? In a couple of months, we plan to go with friends to Newcastle upon Tyne for the match Newcastle United F.C. Who was already at the stadium James' Park to share your impressions, it is very interesting to listen to how there. At the stadium we will be the first and have already found some useful information at grannies hairy fucking ringpiece. Here we got acquainted not only with the history of the stadium, but also looked after some good restaurants and hotels nearby the stadium. And what can you advise me?

Nice non-sequitur

[Alex 30492]

39 minutes ago, Woiuytre said:

You have an interesting discussion here, I am new to the forum and I have a question. How often do you visit football stadiums? Do you like to travel? In a couple of months, we plan to go with friends to Newcastle upon Tyne for the match Newcastle United F.C. Who was already at the stadium James' Park to share your impressions, it is very interesting to listen to how there. At the stadium we will be the first and have already found some useful information at grannies hairy fucking ringpiecel . Here we got acquainted not only with the history of the stadium, but also looked after some good restaurants and hotels nearby the stadium. And what can you advise me?

 

[Rayvin 4964]

After the perfect behaviour of the Remain march last week, we are now of course seeing scuffles with police, threats and jeering towards politicians, and general douchebaggery from the Leave crowd.

[Renton 17841]

Makes me so proud to be English. 

[Monkeys Fist 38872]

Bet they all went for a curry washed down with Stella Artois afterwards. 

[Meenzer 14085]

55 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Bet they all went for a curry washed down with Stella Artois afterwards. 

 

Or a Mexican place, which is where I was fortunate enough to rub shoulders with a few of them near Trafalgar Square earlier tonight before they got their trains back to darkest Kent. Suffice it to say I've had more respectful and, well, evolved dinner companions in my time.

[Meenzer 14085]

Anyway, I found this useful:

 

[Alex 30492]

7 hours ago, Renton said:

Makes me so proud to be English. 

The master race 

[Gemmill 34692]

I was watching it on the telly before and it was either total scummers out to cause hassle or mental middle aged blokes that looked like a Benny from Crossroads impersonators' convention. 

 

 

[Gemmill 34692]

Check out @jamajestical’s Tweet:

 

 

[Meenzer 14085]

 

 

 

We need to be listening to these ordinary folk and understanding them.  

 

 

[ewerk 26512]

This is why democracy doesn’t work.

[Rayvin 4964]

34 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

We need to be listening to these ordinary folk and understanding them.  

 

 

 

Alternative? You want them shot?

 

We need to listen so we can understand and fight it properly.

[Rayvin 4964]

27 minutes ago, ewerk said:

This is why democracy doesn’t work.

 

This is true.

[The Fish 9023]

12 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Alternative? You want them shot?

 

We need to listen so we can understand and fight it properly.

I want them disregarded by everyone as the howl at the moon, end is nigh, aliens done probed ma bee-hind, lunatics that they are.

[Rayvin 4964]

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I want them disregarded by everyone as the howl at the moon, end is nigh, aliens done probed ma bee-hind, lunatics that they are.

 

But the problem with that seems to be that they're growing in number.

 

By not tackling their ignorance, we have allowed the hate peddlers to tell them what their problems are, which is why we have a woman blaming the EU for what i assume are Muslim grooming gangs.

 

This needs to be dealt with, not ignored. All we are doing is surrendering the narrative.

[The Fish 9023]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

But the problem with that seems to be that they're growing in number.

 

By not tackling their ignorance, we have allowed the hate peddlers to tell them what their problems are, which is why we have a woman blaming the EU for what i assume are Muslim grooming gangs.

 

This needs to be dealt with, not ignored. All we are doing is surrendering the narrative.

I find fault with your logic. Giving these people a platform has exacerbated the problem, rather than dealing with it. You invite equally extreme views to find fertile ground, rather than starving it of the oxygen it needs to grow. 

Had Farage and his ilk been given the proportionate coverage that his position deserves would have seen a much different topic for the political discussion to focus on. Had they been given a similar platform that the green party enjoy, we wouldn't have had a referendum. Nobody gave a shit about the EU before Newsnight, Question Time, the Mail and that lot gave platforms to the far right. 

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, The Fish said:

I find fault with your logic. Giving these people a platform has exacerbated the problem, rather than dealing with it. You invite equally extreme views to find fertile ground, rather than starving it of the oxygen it needs to grow. 

Had Farage and his ilk been given the proportionate coverage that his position deserves would have seen a much different topic for the political discussion to focus on. Had they been given a similar platform that the green party enjoy, we wouldn't have had a referendum. Nobody gave a shit about the EU before Newsnight, Question Time, the Mail and that lot gave platforms to the far right. 

 

These people are getting a platform whether we like it or not. The internet sees to that. So to stick to what you're saying we need wide ranging censorship that cracks down on all views outside if a certain window. Thus driving them underground and bringing us closer to actual fascism.

 

The BBC has not covered itself in glory with coverage I agree, but the cat is long out of the bag now and is happening all over the world. The far right is rising and we do nothing because we believe simply not talking about it will make them go away.

 

People need to be better educated politically, and their grievances need to be understood however uncomfortable they may be to hear.

[Rayvin 4964]

In the 2015 election, 25% of UKIP voters voted that way as a protest against the two main parties. So that's about 1 million voters.

 

The ones not being listened to by anyone except the far right.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Rayvin

[The Fish 9023]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

These people are getting a platform whether we like it or not. The internet sees to that. So to stick to what you're saying we need wide ranging censorship that cracks down on all views outside if a certain window. Thus driving them underground and bringing us closer to actual fascism.

 

The BBC has not covered itself in glory with coverage I agree, but the cat is long out of the bag now and is happening all over the world. The far right is rising and we do nothing because we believe simply not talking about it will make them go away.

 

People need to be better educated politically, and their grievances need to be understood however uncomfortable they may be to hear.

Not censorship, just not courting controversy for controversy's sake.

Educating people is great, and worthy and has value. Giving Tommy Robinson credence by giving him a platform is not educating people. I maintain that this country is, by and large, centrist. They may feel ignored by the political class, but they're not fascists and bigots. It's an abject failure of the political parties to appeal to this huge block of voters with time consuming and difficult education, and instead seek to prey on the anger because it's easy and the repercussions are for the next lot to deal with.

[Rayvin 4964]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Not censorship, just not courting controversy for controversy's sake.

Educating people is great, and worthy and has value. Giving Tommy Robinson credence by giving him a platform is not educating people. I maintain that this country is, by and large, centrist. They may feel ignored by the political class, but they're not fascists and bigots. It's an abject failure of the political parties to appeal to this huge block of voters with time consuming and difficult education, and instead seek to prey on the anger because it's easy and the repercussions are for the next lot to deal with.

 

Then you seem to agree with me. These people need to be engaged with and talked to. Understood. Enfranchised.

 

They have the views they do because we haven't bothered and the vacuum was filled by the far right. We need to engage it and its too late to put the ideas away. They're out there.

[Rayvin 4964]

Will also add that no one is giving Robinson a platform except youtube. He was banned from Facebook and now others are being banned for even sharing images of him. 

 

They are trying to censor this and, unsurprisingly, it is only serving to break down trust in our institutions among the people who had their heads turned and can't understand why we dont just "engage with Tommys arguments". He is literally becoming a martyr. He has worldwide fame as a freedom fighter now ffs.

 

What the fuck are we doing?

[Dr Gloom 19845]

He spoke at the Leave Means Leave stage in parliament square yesterday to thousands. Quite a prominent platform. He’s featured prominently on newsnight among other mainstream TV shows and newspapers 

[Gemmill 34692]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Will also add that no one is giving Robinson a platform except youtube. He was banned from Facebook and now others are being banned for even sharing images of him. 

 

They are trying to censor this and, unsurprisingly, it is only serving to break down trust in our institutions among the people who had their heads turned and can't understand why we dont just "engage with Tommys arguments". He is literally becoming a martyr. He has worldwide fame as a freedom fighter now ffs.

 

What the fuck are we doing?

 

The BBC are being reported to have livestreamed his full speech yesterday. Having not broadcast any of the speeches for the Remain March last week.