Gemmill 34812 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Renton, I know you feel strongly about this but you will never get through to CT. He doesn't want to understand what's going on, he just enjoys being a prick about it and seeing you write lots in response. Save yourself the time and frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17856 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Like I said, it's posturing. It's just an attempt to bring forward trade talks. Not worth pissing your pants over. I don't think the divorce issues are negotiable to any meaningful extent, it's a shit show. However, there has to be some strategy for trying to get the best of a bad situation. I'm not sure how you think they should approach it. First thing, we should have done the decent thing regarding EU citizens and maintained their rights in full. Should never have been up for negotiation. We should offer to pay our liabilities in full, upon completion of Brexit. The money is small fry in the scheme of things. If we leave without paying a penny, the EU will have to find about 20 euros a year per citizen to make up the shortfall. Yes, six pence a day. There's no leverage there worth risking our reputation for. NI is I believe an intractable problem. Who is going to run and maintain the border? Any border infrastructure will contravene the GFA and will be a target for terrorism. The only solution to avoid infrastructure will be to stay in the EEA. This has to be the save choice to an insane mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Renton said: What bit? Existential threat? Yes, I think this could lead to breakup of the UK. Happy competing with Germany? Maybe some sectors but years of investment give them huge advantage in innovation, plus they have a much stronger economy and lead a huge reading bloc. Cracking deals with world super powers? Dream on. Anyway, tell me how the Irish border issue will be resolved. Asked you several times now. We are going to continue trading with Germany not competing as such. As for Ireland if they all decide to get it on and vote to unite, good for them. (Not that it will happen). As for the Irish border I’ve told you many times what will happen in that we want a bespokey customs union thingy, tied up in some sort of associate deal. All sorts of food products move all over the world and “fly” through physical borders. None of these issues are summountable. It will all depend on what cash we are prepared to pay. Personally though if they fuck around this time we should just spit the dummy and walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34812 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 "a bespokey customs union thingy." Honestly if that doesn't stop you from engaging with him, nothing will. He thinks we're going to fix Brexit with a kodi build. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26550 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: As for the Irish border I’ve told you many times what will happen in that we want a bespokey customs union thingy, tied up in some sort of associate deal. Could you give a bit more detail on this 'bespokey customs union thingy'? It sounds like it could be a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19878 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gemmill said: "a bespokey customs union thingy." Honestly if that doesn't stop you from engaging with him, nothing will. He thinks we're going to fix Brexit with a kodi build. the brexit beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17856 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Gemmill said: "a bespokey customs union thingy." Honestly if that doesn't stop you from engaging with him, nothing will. He thinks we're going to fix Brexit with a kodi build. Aye, was willing to respond until I saw that and confirmed he's playing the wum as usual. Last thing I'll say for now is for people interested (and really everybody should be), it's worth looking into some of the technical detail of how the SM, CU and EEA operate and see what difficulties withdrawing from them entails. Then consider the makeup of our government and their true motivations for continuing what is universally regarded as macroeconomic suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8893 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Personally though if they fuck around this time we should just spit the dummy and walk away. Don’t choke on your cake while walking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19878 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, Renton said: Aye, was willing to respond until I saw that and confirmed he's playing the wum as usual. Last thing I'll say for now is for people interested (and really everybody should be), it's worth looking into some of the technical detail of how the SM, CU and EEA operate and see what difficulties withdrawing from them entails. Then consider the makeup of our government and their true motivations for continuing what is universally regarded as macroeconomic suicide. nonsense. we'll easily arrange a custom thingy. anyone who says otherwise is a willy waving remoaner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30523 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 It's a return to the wum/moron/both debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, ewerk said: Could you give a bit more detail on this 'bespokey customs union thingy'? It sounds like it could be a winner. The very simplistic version as time is precious. We have a bespoke deal (that the PM has talked about), that allows us to form a new customs union with the EU. Turkey has one and there are no barriers on products except agriculture. Ours would include agriculture. This is why it’s pointless discussing Ireland because this scenario would continue with no border. This is what will happen and how the Ireland issue will be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30523 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 A sort of full membership of the EU bespokey thingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26550 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: The very simplistic version as time is precious. We have a bespoke deal (that the PM has talked about), that allows us to form a new customs union with the EU. Turkey has one and there are no barriers on products except agriculture. Ours would include agriculture. This is why it’s pointless discussing Ireland because this scenario would continue with no border. This is what will happen and how the Ireland issue will be resolved. What you are suggesting is the EU Customs Union. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 16 minutes ago, Alex said: A sort of full membership of the EU bespokey thingy Turkey are not EU members and don’t commit to four freedoms so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 minute ago, ewerk said: What you are suggesting is the EU Customs Union. No, it’s a bespoke custom union with the EU similar to Turkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14655 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: The very simplistic version as time is precious. We have a bespoke deal (that the PM has talked about), that allows us to form a new customs union with the EU. Turkey has one and there are no barriers on products except agriculture. Ours would include agriculture. This is why it’s pointless discussing Ireland because this scenario would continue with no border. This is what will happen and how the Ireland issue will be resolved. I was on holiday in Croatia in July 2013. They'd just joined the EU. On every road that crossed into Bosnia Herzogovina a checkpoint had been built almost overnight. The locals told us that even during the Balkans war in the 90s there were no official checkpoints. There were long queues at every crossing point, causing havoc with the local economy. The EU had insisted they were built and the Croatians did as they were told. Seeing as the ECB have Ireland over a barrel financially am not sure what sort of deal can be struck when all but the most wilfully,stupidly pig ignorant, propagandising,lying, flag waving pieces of shit and those more than willing to be lied to by them can see that the UK have absolutely no leaverage whatsoever on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27095 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Christmas Tree said: We are going to continue trading with Germany not competing as such. As for Ireland if they all decide to get it on and vote to unite, good for them. (Not that it will happen). As for the Irish border I’ve told you many times what will happen in that we want a bespokey customs union thingy, tied up in some sort of associate deal. All sorts of food products move all over the world and “fly” through physical borders. None of these issues are summountable. It will all depend on what cash we are prepared to pay. Personally though if they fuck around this time we should just spit the dummy and walk away. Holy fuck! Who told you about the brexiteers top secret Irish 'Marvin Gaye' plan? It was supposed to be on a strictly 'need to know' basis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26550 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: No, it’s a bespoke custom union with the EU similar to Turkeys. And what makes it bespoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 18 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: I was on holiday in Croatia in July 2013. They'd just joined the EU. On every road that crossed into Bosnia Herzogovina a checkpoint had been built almost overnight. The locals told us that even during the Balkans war in the 90s there were no official checkpoints. There were long queues at every crossing point, causing havoc with the local economy. The EU had insisted they were built and the Croatians did as they were told. Seeing as the ECB have Ireland over a barrel financially am not sure what sort of deal can be struck when all but the most wilfully,stupidly pig ignorant, propagandising,lying, flag waving pieces of shit and those more than willing to be lied to by them can see that the UK have absolutely no leaverage whatsoever on this issue. I suppose the bottom line is both sides know a good deal is in each other’s interests and the EU will no doubt welcome the ongoing payments from the UK for the various ongoing projects. It’s now simply about getting to the end point with both sides being able to sell the various compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19878 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 36 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: No, it’s a bespoke custom union with the EU similar to Turkeys. The one caveat being it’s more similar to the actual EU customs union. begs the question, why withdraw from the actual CU in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 31 minutes ago, ewerk said: And what makes it bespoke? It will wriggle its way out of this after poring over the definition for 20 mins and even if not it will just laugh it off. I've seen it laugh off being two full orders of magnitude out on a simple calculation and move on without any sense of self-awareness. It is barely sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: The one caveat being it’s more similar to the actual EU customs union. begs the question, why withdraw from the actual CU in the first place? So we can do our own trade deals with the parts of the world that are booming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17856 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Tubs wants a CU deal similar to Turkey's deal? It's absolutely shit, the worst of all worlds. What a fucking aspiration. https://infacts.org/briefings/turkish-option/ CT, it's as if you don't understand what a customs union is. Being in one stops us making our own deals with third countries. Oh, and it wouldn't circumvent the need for a border in Ireland. You are a bone fide idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 36 minutes ago, ewerk said: And what makes it bespoke? Im not sure what you are getting at. Setting up a bespoke customs union is the answer to all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17856 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, Christmas Tree said: Im not sure what you are getting at. Setting up a bespoke customs union is the answer to all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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