Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 27 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Parliament votes to hold a referendum. The people vote in the refferendum. Parliament votes to trigger article 50 Plenty of democracy. Actually I've been thinking recently how profoundly undemocratic our system is. Some examples: 1) FPTP means for most people voting in a GE is a complete waste of time. 2) We don't vote for our PM. In fact, our PM has not been directly elected in more than 8 of the last 10 years. 3) Our president, the queen, is hereditary. 4) The HoL is not democratically elected and includes heridatry peers and theists. 5) Our class society means the odds are stacked against the average person becoming an MP or entering the judiciary. 6) Pervasive right wing bias in all aspects of the media, usually for the lobbying benefit of nom dom oligarchs. All in all, profoundly undemocratic, as Brexit shows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, ewerk said: Except Brexit is being defined by the aforementioned 30 or so nutjobs. I think it was fairly clearly defined leading upto the refferendum and in Mays Lancaster house speech. The public were told time and time again that voting to leave would mean leaving the single market, leaving the customs union and that this would make the economy poorer. They chose to ignore that advice and leave anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: I think it was fairly clearly defined leading upto the refferendum and in Mays Lancaster house speech. The public were told time and time again that voting to leave would mean leaving the single market, leaving the customs union and that this would make the economy poorer. They chose to ignore that advice and leave anyway. Hold on, May said that we'd be poorer? When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Why did you vote leave again anyway CT? From memory, it was because we'd have our cake, eat it, and become richer. Talk about moving goal posts. Why in the holy name of fuck would people vote to be poorer? Have less money and poorer services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30467 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14069 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 We most certainly did not vote for heavy import duties on Nazi paraphernalia for our stage shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26486 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 21/02/2016 at 22:46, Christmas Tree said: Take the main point Chez "Access to a $16.6 trillion a year Single Market of 500m people is the key benefit". Does anyone remotely believe that this would change if we were out. But yet you knew you were voting to leave the single market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34640 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, ewerk said: But yet you knew you were voting to leave the single market? He's taking on water as fast as he's taking on calories atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, ewerk said: But yet you knew you were voting to leave the single market? CT, the personification of Brexit. Clueless as to what even he's said. So CT, if we leave the SM and CU, what do you think will happen to Nissan. Personally, I'm not that concerned because I'm virtually certain it won't happen following the phase 1 agreement. However, given that, predictably, you now think this is a good thing, are you not remotely concerned about 10% car tariffs and the effect on JiT components. You actually are willing Nissan to leave you idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 CT, the turkey who voted for Christmas. Quote Versions of Brexit under consideration by the cabinet could cut British manufacturing exports by up to a third, according to new economic modelling that finds leave-voting areas such as Sunderland, Coventry, Derby and County Durham suffering most as a result. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/07/brexit-manufacturing-exports-leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30467 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, ewerk said: But yet you knew you were voting to leave the single market? What a fucking balloon knot he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Does sum up the whole thing nicely though. The people who voted for Brexit are now sticking to it in a bid not to look fucking stupid - hence why the arguments change to suit the current realities of the situation. In the end it'll be all about sovereignty because that's the only argument that will actually be proven to stand up to any modicum of scrutiny. And even that's only because they will refuse to accept the arguments made about how we were still a sovereign fucking nation anyway, just one with the best fucking deal in Europe out of all associated countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30467 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 And they don't even manage to not look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 hours ago, ewerk said: But yet you knew you were voting to leave the single market? I think you are getting confused with “access” to and being a member of the single market. Everyone knew then that single market membership meant adhering to the four freedoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19841 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 balloon knot can @Ant please make that his new username? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 58 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: I think you are getting confused with “access” to and being a member of the single market. Everyone knew then that single market membership meant adhering to the four freedoms. And we're back to cake and eat it again. You think we can have the benefits of SM without the responsibilities. Bizarre magical thinking. Anyway, you've said in the past FOM was not an issue to you. So remind me why you voted leave? It wasnt to take back control was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I assume CT's point about single market access is that we will technically still be trading with them even after we leave the single market. It's not quite the same though... we will be trading with the EU, but we won't have access to the SM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26486 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said: I think you are getting confused with “access” to and being a member of the single market. Everyone knew then that single market membership meant adhering to the four freedoms. So you voted in the belief that we could leave the single market while still getting unfettered access to it? That makes you look even more stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30467 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The leavers were after access to the Single Market in the way the USA has access to it. That's why no mention was made of countries like the USA and instead countries like Norway and Switzerland were mentioned instead. Because that makes perfect sense and it isn't a dishonest attempt at obfuscating the true nature of the debate prior to the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34640 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The government's Brexit impact report confirms that the North East will be the region most significantly impacted by a no deal or free trade arrangement. You'd have to be some kind of gigantic thick cunt to have voted for that, eh CT? Figures have been leaked and are on the BBC and the Guardian live politics blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14069 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Gemmill said: You'd have to be some kind of gigantic thick cunt to have voted for that, eh CT? Be fair, you could just be someone with no sense of empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30467 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Or both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 49 minutes ago, Gemmill said: The government's Brexit impact report confirms that the North East will be the region most significantly impacted by a no deal or free trade arrangement. You'd have to be some kind of gigantic thick cunt to have voted for that, eh CT? Figures have been leaked and are on the BBC and the Guardian live politics blog. The NE will take a 16% on GDP hit with no deal and 11% with a comprehensive FTA. Even the latter figure is more than we spend on healthcare. Nice one CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, Alex said: Or both I mean, it's not like he works in the service industry or anything. Oh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17829 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Quote North East England, in a 'no deal' situation, could face a 16% hit to GDP. Sky sources suggest an 11% hit even if a comprehensive free trade agreement is reached. It is the only region of England with a goods trade surplus with the EU, and it also has the highest per capita EU funding of any English region. Given these two facts CT, I'm interested to know how on Earth you think weakening trade links with the EU, who we are in surplus with, and ending regional spending could ever benefit the NE? Seriously, just trying to get my head round it. I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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