Alex 30440 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 People are fucking thick, man. Why look into it yourself when Piers Morgan is telling you what’s what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: A PV is potentially terrifying Aye. Softest possible Brexit we can realistically get, to reflect the 52-48 split, then deal with the consequences later. I don't now really see what another referendum will achieve other than making the country even more fucking unpleasant to live in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Worth noting that Scotland wasn't included in that and London has a heavy population advantage, but even so. Depends on the campaign somewhat but people will be entrenched by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Then again, if we can have PV2 without No Deal as an option, maybe its back on. Takes some serious balls though, from the political class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26413 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 The country has largely lost its fucking mind. I’ve always though that regions such as Wales and the Midlands were thicker than average but I guess that polls like this really confirm it. The average punter supporting no deal has absolutely nothing to gain from it. It won’t even stop the Poles from getting in, never mind the brown faces. The public are idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26413 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Worth noting that Scotland wasn't included in that and London has a heavy population advantage, but even so. Depends on the campaign somewhat but people will be entrenched by now. It was region rather than constituency btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30440 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Also will the younger generation bother their arse and actually vote again this time? You can guarantee 94 year old Ethel will vote for No Deal if it fucking kills her. Parliament really should fucking sort this shit out. They’ve been passing the buck for 3 years with their will of the people bollocks like they’re absolutely sure what that is (that’s a generalisation but you’ll take my point). If you know what that really is why don’t you deliver it? Or perhaps admit it was a close vote with hugely nuanced reasons for the result and reflect that with a compromise? The argument there’s a mandate for the most extreme version of Brexit is as absurd as it is reckless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17811 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Rayvin said: There was a yougov poll doing the rounds yesterday that said every constituency in England bar the London ones wanted No Deal over Remain. I'm less and less sure about this referendum. Have you a link to the actual source of that survey, rather than just a newspaper report (which I've seen in the Metro, but didn't give a link). It's just that I can't find it on the yougov website but its completely contrary to other surveys they've done very recently. I'd be interested in who funded this and how it was framed. There are millions of pounds being spent on promoting no deal on social media at the moment, by anonymous sources. They are sophisticated and targeted campaigns, just like in the referendum. Unless we can get a grip on this issue I genuinely believe democracy is dead. This will apply to elections as well as referenda. And the fact that both leave campaigns have been found to be corrupt, but this has been swept under the carpet, doesn't bode well for this issue being successfully managed. Increasingly, democracy is a mirage. Edited April 4, 2019 by Renton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Renton said: Have you a link to the actual source of that survey, rather than just a newspaper report (which I've seen in the Metro, but didn't give a link). It's just that I can't find it on the yougov website but its completely contrary to other surveys they've done very recently. I'd be I terested in who funded this and how it was framed. There are millions of pounds being spent on promoting no deal on social media at the moment, by anonymous sources. They are sophisticated and targeted campaigns, just like in the referendum. Unless we can get aa grip on this issue I genuinely believe democracy is dead. This will apply to elections as well as referenda. And the fact that both leave campaigns have been found to be corrupt, but this has been swept under the carpet, doesn't bode well for this issue being successfully managed. Increasingly, democracy is a mirage. Fair point actually. I can't see anything about it except the Metro. I wouldn't have imagined they would just make something up but there really is nothing about it anywhere else. Maybe the elites are suppressing it /Parky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Have to say, supporting the point about No Deal propaganda on social media - I've seen an awful lot of (new) absolute bollocks coming out of Brexiters recently. I don't know how we fight this anymore, short of actually allowing the government to properly crack down on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30440 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Fair point actually. I can't see anything about it except the Metro. I wouldn't have imagined they would just make something up but there really is nothing about it anywhere else. Maybe the elites are suppressing it /Parky. Low paid journalists under pressure to produce copy and not able to check sources properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30440 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Have to say, supporting the point about No Deal propaganda on social media - I've seen an awful lot of (new) absolute bollocks coming out of Brexiters recently. I don't know how we fight this anymore, short of actually allowing the government to properly crack down on the internet. That’s what’s so dodgy about the likes of Piers Morgan. I could see him just being an irresponsible contrarian cunt but, equally, something more sinister in his latest stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17811 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) I'm the last person to believe in conspiracy theories but I do think foreign powers are pushing this. Also, why has the whole vote leave illegality not even been properly discussed? Why aren't Labour kicking up a fuss? The only time MPs have wanted to discuss fraud was for the 6 million petition last week ffs. And I note none of the tories bothered to turn up to the "debate". Edited April 4, 2019 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alex said: That’s what’s so dodgy about the likes of Piers Morgan. I could see him just being an irresponsible contrarian cunt but, equally, something more sinister in his latest stance Yeah I'm really not sure how we deal with this now. Clearly some people in society are capable of existing responsibly in the age of bullshit, but many are not. One of my friends is an Indian lad who frequently talks about this phenomenon in India. Apparently they're very concerned about the use of things like Whatsapp since it has been leading to mob killings in rural areas by people being whipped up into a frenzy in community groups (which basically become echo chambers). They've banned it in certain areas I believe. It's similar here clearly - some people just can't be trusted in the age we live in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30440 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Could you imagine any other time when a petition garnering that many signatures was dismissed so readily? I’m a firm believer in conspiracy theories. The problem is that belief is tainted by association with people like Parky who believe in chemtrails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just now, Alex said: Could you imagine any other time when a petition garnering that many signatures was dismissed so readily? I’m a firm believer in conspiracy theories. The problem is that belief is tainted by association with people like Parky who believe in chemtrails. I think it's completely fair to assume Russia is behind this in some form, and quite possibly even the US since they've never been keen on a strong Europe. But it's also a good number of fuckheads in our own country. Maybe we should make it treasonous to disseminate fake news, punishable by actual jail time (if you're the source at least) irrespective of who the fuck you are in the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3981 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Renton said: I'm the last person to believe in conspiracy theories but I do think foreign powers are pushing this. Also, why has the whole vote leave illegality not even been properly discussed? Why aren't Labour kicking up a fuss? The only time MPs have wanted to discuss fraud was for the 6 million petition last week ffs. And I note none of the tories bothered to turn up to the "debate". Watson is the only fucker who seems to care about the electoral crimes but he's a lone voice unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26413 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 It’s extremely unlikely that no deal would be on any potential ballot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: It’s extremely unlikely that no deal would be on any potential ballot. That's good news but surely there'd be hell on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17811 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: That's good news but surely there'd be hell on? NJS is right, no deal will never be on a ballot. Loads of reasons. Not least because by definition it actively promotes something that breaks the GFA, will cause Scottish independence, will cause huge business uncertainty just by being an option, and the EU would not grant an extension with this as an active option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Ok, so how do we handle the Brexiteers on this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 It is apparently 'tyranny' for the Lords to fast track Cooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26413 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Ok, so how do we handle the Brexiteers on this issue? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8872 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: I think it's completely fair to assume Russia is behind this in some form, and quite possibly even the US since they've never been keen on a strong Europe. Probably both together, being the same people and entities who tried to infiltrate various elections and spread discontent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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