Thatcher Dead

[Rayvin 4964]

Nope, if you check the post breakdown for this topic, he's the most prolific commenter with 102 posts.

 

Which probably means he'd go away if someone made the topic inaccessible to him.

[The6Bells 0]

If you really understood your socialism you'd realise it was the invention of an intellectual middle class...Lennin, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, that German woman I can't remember the name of, the Fabian society (the steering group for Labour)...None of these boys were workers in the old sense of the word. All well educated thinkers. Socialism was never the invention of the working class. Even the French revolution as it's quaintly referred to...All middle class thinkers and well dressed to boot.

 

If you really looked into it Oxford and Cambridge turn out as many as many 'socialists' as 'conservatives'.

 

How many front benchers or Labour ministers have been working class since the war? Not many bro.

 

Blair had as good an education (Posh religious school in Scotland before Uni) as Cameron.

 

Please don't embarress yourself on here futher without taking course to some book learnin...

 

And if people really understood Thatcherism, they'd know it wasn't even really grounded in Conservative thinking of that time. These labels do change over time, some through power players like Thacther and the like, others through mass movement. It's a bit impertinent of a lizard fucker like yourself to assume this is all new to me though. I've only been talking about the average docker socialist here as that's the topic at hand. It's not news to me that Labour's got no working class front bencers, that was one of the themes of one of my very first posts. I know more than anyone here has even imagined I bet. I'd wager there's a few here who never knew Thatcher was refused an honorary degree by Oxford over her education policy. Not the sort of thing that happens to one of 'them'.

[Park Life 70]

For me the important thing is ideas and good ones take root. They can come from the 'left' or the 'right' as the past shows us. European society is way ahead of say America for that reason...Because it steers a course over time between the two pillars of the political spectrum.

[The6Bells 0]

If Scotland leave the UK, is that a victory for Thatcher or a victory for those broken spirited socialists who you seem to think are lost in modern society? I'd say she was one of the prime causes for their disillusionment with the UK.

 

Also, spare me the tirade about how they'll fail if they leave; they may do, but at least they're not willing to take it up the arse from London any more.

 

Woah, calm down lad. I only mentioned the SNP for their political spectrum, not the independence issue. I'm not that interested in the Scottish question at all truth be told. I know they hated Thatcher, but i think, as someone on one of the early TV obituaries noted, that was as much down to their own misconceptions about her politics, than the actual politics. The last poll I saw though, support for independence was down to 30%, so I think it's a bit pointless even considering it as a possibility, let alone talking about what it means. A victory for devolution maybe? Well, Thacther didn't believe in that, but if so, Labour fucked their UK power base on that one too.

[Monkeys Fist 38893]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/thatcher-tribute-cuts-unveiled-2013041065271

 

[Happy Face 29]

 

 

This is the intellectual standard of most Thatcher haters, and no doubt 100% of the street partiers. Thick as fucking mince, never knowing a thing about the subject they profess to speak about, and more crucially, certain enough of it to make the sort of comparisons of Thatcher's era to some of the most vile dictators that ever lived.

 

A 26 year old knobend on the radio today even claimed she was behind Iraq. And fucking repeated it even when told politely by the presenter that he's maybe got himself a little confused (it wasn't a mistake, he hadn't confused it for the Falklands for example). It's fucking planks like this that swallow the stuff about decimated industries and regurgitate it, like little Morrissey spawn. The way people go on, you'd think Thatcher was the sort to have proposed removing the vote from piss stains like this, yet quite the reverse.

 

I'm certainly learning lots from you. I was only born the year she came to office so I have been brainwashed by the haters. One thing I'm still confused by though. Why is she so maligned and misunderstood? Why do all these people who she made so much better off, who were lucky enough to be around as she improved everything, who could see her fighting racism and tyrants with all her will, why do they not appreciate it.....apart from stupidity I mean...because even stupid people know when they are better or worse off.

 

[The6Bells 0]

Our home dear boy is ideas.

 

That's got to be the least incisive thing you've said in here. I preferred it when you were talking about the Illuminati.

[Park Life 70]

That's got to be the least incisive thing you've said in here. I preferred it when you were talking about the Illuminati.

 

They recruit from the left and the right. Communism and Capitalism are both their works. I guess their wankdream is some combination of the two......Soros is a good example. An immigrant who started by selling postcards on a beach in Wales...Now one of the richest men in the world and very bright.

 

When he took on the bank of england (the pound) and made all that money it's pretty clear he had some kind of ok from those above him (he's only really middle ranking)...Otherwise he wouldn't have been with us for very long. The game is the game at any level. The real powers that be didn't want the pound finding a level in the exchange rate mechanism and later the Uk joining a supra-currency....For them we are more useful as the Israel of Europe.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Park Life

[The6Bells 0]

I'm certainly learning lots from you. I was only born the year she came to office so I have been brainwashed by the haters. One thing I'm still confused by though. Why is she so maligned and misunderstood? Why do all these people who she made so much better off, who were lucky enough to be around as she improved everything, who could see her fighting racism and tyrants with all her will, why do they not appreciate it.....apart from stupidity I mean...because even stupid people know when they are better or worse off.

 

Ah, I see where your confusion lies. I never claimed she improved everyone's lives at all. I'm not one of these idiots who is acting just as bad as the socialists and demanding you bow down to the greatest leader we ever had. I don't begrudge anyone their valid gripes. I wouldn't bat an eyelid to someone if they said I hat Thatcher because she did xyz, and xyz turned out to be remotely connected to historical reality. She couldn't help everyone, but then again, not everyone wants to be helped (or wants to help themselves). She is so maligned though because of the sheer impact she had on the country - her policies actually did something, so it's likely people remember. But let's face it, who's going to get their knickers in a twist if someone piped up in 20 years time and claimed John Major got 2% of people back into work when his actual record might have been 1?. Nobody has a clue about Callaghan and the huge number of mines he closed though. Ask yourself why there's been no uproar about that. Is it because it's not true? Because it is.

[Happy Face 29]

I don't begrudge anyone their valid gripes.

 

Phew. From what you've posted it's easy to get the impression you think anyone criticising Thatcher is a moron, when obviously she deserves criticism.

 

[Meenzer 14096]

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/7/#c7

 

A long read, obviously, but there are some interesting contributions in there.

[Monkeys Fist 38893]

Having seen countless arguments from both sides, I'd have to say this

 

 

[Meenzer 14096]

[NJS 3986]

Nobody has a clue about Callaghan and the huge number of mines he closed though. Ask yourself why there's been no uproar about that. Is it because it's not true? Because it is.

 

And a shed load were closed in the 60s under Wilson - the difference was they were usually dangerous or unworkable even beyond "sensible" subsidy and weren't shut because of spite.

 

Westoe had the biggest coal face in Western Europe untouched and accessible when it closed - absolute madness to do so.

 

You talk about the XY and Zs ias if they were few and petty and debateable - I think you have to realise they are numerous and critical to how this country now is. I genuinely believe this country has been shaped into a harsher, nastier place over the last 30 years and a great part of that is her malign influence in engendering fear at one end and glorying in excess and moral bankruptcy at the other.

 

.

[Monkeys Fist 38893]

One for 6Bellend's blood pressure.

[Renton 17848]

One for 6Bellend's blood pressure.

 

Already posted.

 

Agree fully with NJS.

[PaddockLad 14654]

And I still drink in the working mens club my parents and grandparents generations did.

 

 

I bet the regulars fuckin love seeing you strolling in for a half of mild....

[Dr Gloom 19862]

Greatest leader we ever had.

 

This lad's definitely stumbled into the wrong forum

[Renton 17848]

Greatest leader we ever had.

 

This lad's definitely stumbled into the wrong forum

 

Thought that was Cameron?

[NJS 3986]

I was thinking last night about an episode of the daily show I saw a few weeks ago where the guest was someone who'd written a book about how 10m Americans go hungry every day and mentioned a similar report came out in the early 70s and such was the public outrage a government agency was setup which pretty much solved it overnight through food stamps etc

 

Stewart asked the author what happened to make the problem return and she replied Reagan launched the agenda that if you were poor it was your own fault because you were lazy and feckless etc which worked so well the majority believe it and now don't support the help.

 

I wonder where he and the current shower in the uk got the idea from?

[Happy Face 29]

I wonder where he and the current shower in the uk got the idea from?

 

Milton Friedman

 

The prick.

 

[Monkeys Fist 38893]

 

 

Already posted.

 

Agree fully with NJS.

[Howmanheyman 27056]

Caught a bit of the Huw Edwards on the BBC interviewing David Mellor, Johnathon Aitken and someone else (I forget who). Eulogies tripped from their (slimy) tongues and you think, hang on, Mellors an absolute cunt, apparently changed from a Fulham fan to a Chelsea as his big mate and soon to be PM, John Major liked Chelsea, he had an affair when married and eventually resigned in 1992. Aitken threatened to sue the the press and World in Action for libel when they claimed he had stayed at the Ritz hotel paid for by the Saudis in an arms scam. He claimed his Wife had stayed there instead and when he did go ahead and sue the Guardian and Granada TV it turned out Aitken had been telling porkies after all. He got 18 months for perjury. Edwards should have said after Aitken's Thatcher memories, 'Now, Johnathon, is that the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?'

 

Fucking self serving wankers the vast majority of them, Thatchers people down to a tee.

[RedfernMag 0]

Decent article here, worth a read.

 

 

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/oliver-huitson/thatcher-black-gold-or-red-bricks

[RedfernMag 0]

 

2008? The socialists are a little bit too pissed off about their current lot even now for that to be even remotely true. What's "Red" Ed going to do if he gets in exactly? He'll not build a single council house. He'll not repeal a single union law. He'll not nationalise a single industry. He'll not reshape the tax regime in any way that will be remotely noticeable. He'll tackle the defecit by demanding 17% cuts instead of 20%. Probably the only major way he'll depart from Thatcherism, is to relegate Britain to a second rank don't rock the boat member of the increasingly federalist EU.

 

I don't give a fuck about new-labour, or indeed parliamentary politics.