Here we go again, Ashley "wants" to sell.....

[Happy Face 29]

Aye, but none of that means Newcastle United could now secure borrowing of £130m from Barclays when they were refusing to lend us £70m in 2006.

 

I'm only trying to make the valid distinction between whether the club is in an improved financial position or the owner is better able to personally subsidise it.

 

I think it's clearly the latter.

[ewerk 27300]

We're certainly more financially secure now than we were. Whether the books reflect that or not.

[Happy Face 29]

We're certainly more financially secure now than we were. Whether the books reflect that or not.

 

Absolutely....and if Ashley handed the club back to Shepherd tomorrow for free and said "you've got 6 months to find a bank that will cover the loans" then the club would be facing administration again.

[BigWalrus 0]

 

I agree.

 

I don't see what Ashley done with the club that makes us more of a going concern though? He's personally had to cover the growth of debt during his reign. The fact Shepherd couldn't afford to is why I agree financial ruin was more likely. The fact Ashley can afford to doesn't make the books much more attractive.

 

Basically, he could afford to cover the losses until TV money grew to be enough to cover them.

As sole shareholder, his loans are bottom of the chain when it comes to preference.

 

Previously, the Barclays loans were secured on the stadium, meaning the club was at risk if repayment didn't take place.

 

From a going concern standpoint, the current position is hugely preferable.

[Happy Face 29]

We aren't disagreeing while we're concentrating on his ability to cover the debts he accrues.

 

Where he hasn't improved the financial situation (so far) is by doing anything pro-active to grow revenue or to lower debt to levels they were at when he arrived.

 

4 more years of survival and improving TV money might get him to a point where the bottom line looks improved.

[BigWalrus 0]

My view is that the debt to Ashley is effectively part of his purchase price.

 

I can't remember the exact figures offhand, but let's say he paid £100m to S&H and then immediately paid off £140m of the Barclays loan. If S & H had paid the loan off themselves prior to selling, the purchase price would then have been £100m + £140m = £240m, except the whole lot would have been equity. Ashley will almost certainly view the loan repayment as part of his original consideration, regardless of what the accounting treatment is.

[ewerk 27300]

My view is that the debt to Ashley is effectively part of his purchase price.

 

I can't remember the exact figures offhand, but let's say he paid £100m to S&H and then immediately paid off £140m of the Barclays loan. If S & H had paid the loan off themselves prior to selling, the purchase price would then have been £100m + £140m = £240m, except the whole lot would have been equity. Ashley will almost certainly view the loan repayment as part of his original consideration, regardless of what the accounting treatment is.

 

It also has absolutely no relation to the actual market value of the club. You'd hope that Ashley is clever enough to see that.

[PaddockLad 15132]

 

It also has absolutely no relation to the actual market value of the club. You'd hope that Ashley is clever enough to see that.

Well yeah, as someone stated earlier that's why hes now taking money out of the club, possibly to get to a level where we reach a realistic selling price. Thing is he needs 100 million minimum before we get to that level. That could take a long time and even then a mad Arab sheikh or something. Great for a season, but its turned any half decent citeh fans into utter tossers.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Leazes must be reading this, desperate to find a way to outsmart Ant and have some input. Stop teasing him.

[Rayvin 4992]

It also has absolutely no relation to the actual market value of the club. You'd hope that Ashley is clever enough to see that.

I don't understand why the debt really matters in this context. So the club is highly geared, so what? Most businesses (and nation states) will tell you that this is a more profitable way to run than just using shareholder equity to get by. It's obviously riskier, especially in recessions, but it doesn't seem that the banks are about to pull the plug.

 

Unless of course this £140m was a loan that was to be called in during Ashley's reign; in which case he's probably had to pay it, and is probably right to seek that money back. Unrealistic, but understandable.

[scoobos 297]

I think Shepard and Ashley are as bad as each other.

 

Ewerk, I agree that Ashley is clever enough to see that and that's why he's effectively not looking to sell and never has been.

 

In my view, the club has that debt to ashley - not any future owner - it shouldn't be included in the price as its essentially the same as having a bank loan. I also take a bit of resentment to any owner of a football club saying hes "paid money out of his own pocket" when they haven't they've just loaned it.

 

Smurke and mirrors if you ask me.

[Happy Face 29]

Amazed to be interested by an article in the chronicle on this...

 

How much would it cost to buy out Mike Ashley?

 

Putting a price on Newcastle United is far from simple.

 

Wilkinson said: “The way you would normally value any business is a multiple of the future maintainable earnings.

 

“What they have in the figures from last year – and they strip out what they call player trading – is the normalised operating figure, which for Newcastle last season was about £7.5m.

 

“Normally you would value any business on a multiple of that sum.

 

“If you look at a similar business, say Manchester United, you would work out their rough value by multiplying their published figure, which might be 20 times their operating profit.

 

“Newcastle, who it must be said are not Manchester United, might be times 13 or 14, something like that.

 

“That is typically how you work out how much a business is worth, but football is anything but a typical business.”

 

Quite.

 

So using this practice, and this is far from an exact science, Newcastle could be said to be ‘worth’ £97.5m.

 

[Howmanheyman 28457]

£97.5M plus the £284M we owe to Mike when we popped round for a cuppa at his Buckinghamshire flat and asked him for a sub. Good old Mike said 'no bother, Geordie my old son' and we said we'd 'see him alright when we got our new glasses.'

[LoveTheBobby 1]

 

Once worked with one kid on site who had full-on Hubble strength gegs.

 

Think Spekky Twat out of Viz .

 

First day the foreman saw this lad came straight out with "fuck me, I bet you need glasses to FIND your fuckin glasses ?!"

 

I laughed anyway .

[ewerk 27300]

 

Putting a price on Newcastle United is far from simple.

Wilkinson said: 'I haven't a fucking clue. Just under £100 million?'

 

[luckyluke 2]

Call me a thicko but why does the club owe Ashley the money he paid to buy it?

[Happy Face 29]

Call me a thicko but why does the club owe Ashley the money he paid to buy it?

It doesn't. That money isn't on the books at all. He could sell the club for a pound and all he would be owed is the £130m outstanding loans.

 

People rightly assume he will not sell until he can recoup all that he has put in though.

[Monkeys Fist 39421]

It doesn't.

Thicko

[DEADMAN 0]

Why don't you make a bid, deaders?

Ashley can shove it up his sports direct greedy fat gambling prick arse mother fucker arse as far as i am concerned

[scoobos 297]

WHS.

[desmondTUTU 0]

DEADMAN speak da truth

[BigWalrus 0]

It doesn't. That money isn't on the books at all. He could sell the club for a pound and all he would be owed is the £130m outstanding loans.

 

People rightly assume he will not sell until he can recoup all that he has put in though.

People wrongly assume. If he thinks there's no hope of recouping his losses and his cash can be better invested elsewhere, he would be more than happy to pull out at a loss.

[Kitman 2188]

Somehow I think we're stuck with him unless he gets a megatastic offer. Which seems unlikely.

[DEADMAN 0]

He needs some big fat offer like from the Abu Dhabi's who have plenty of money

[aimaad22 3698]

Despite despising the likes of City, Monaco, PSG etc and what they've done to the game, I'd be delighted if any Russian/Arab chose us as his new toy now. Before Ashley runs us into the ground again.