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16 minutes ago, NJS said:

Problem is like with Blair, in order to keep power you end up toeing the line that doesn't upset the "reasonable" people who are scared of anything major. 

 

Not that Blair wanted to do anything major but he could have pushed the boat out a bit beyond the half-decent stuff. 

… coughs…reasonable…coughs…major…coughs…fucking Brexit:lol:

 

I largely agree with you, but that’s where being a politician comes in, persuading the people to accept change. 


 

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15 hours ago, Gemmill said:

This Jenrick business. You could make yourself ill with the rage. They release all the very damning papers and an hour later Johnson puts out a statement saying he now considers the matter closed. Please get coronavirus again. 


 

152EB1AA-378C-461A-9A4B-3B9BD3F9BB18.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Are any other non-US special forces training the US police?


You think the Israeli’s train every police force in America? That’s 800,000 police officers. 
 

Or did they just provide guidance to the top brass and they disseminated it to everyone else?

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58 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:


You think the Israeli’s train every police force in America? That’s 800,000 police officers. 
 

Or did they just provide guidance to the top brass and they disseminated it to everyone else?

 

They give seminars apparently, including in the state Floyd was killed. There is loads of reporting on this, idk why you've decided to challenge me on it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/25/long-baileys-sacking-sparks-renewed-focus-on-us-and-israeli-police-links

 

"There is no doubt that there are many programmes involving Israeli officials offering training to US police forces. Some programmes are conducted on US soil in conjunction with the Israeli embassy,¬†such as a 2012 event¬†where 100 officers from Minnetonka ‚Äď a city 8 miles from Minneapolis, where Floyd was killed ‚Äď were trained on how to combat terrorists. Other programmes, often organised by pro-Israel organisations based in the US, involved flying small groups of officers to Israel for training programmes. Such police exchanges are not uncommon."

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7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

I mean, I could believe that it's an Israeli police technique - not because they're Jewish, but because Israel has a reputation based on decades of oppressive violence against Palestinians.

 

I do accept that making the claim without it being true, coming from a left winger, IS antisemitic. But I suspect I wouldn't have picked up on it from reading the article given that, based on how Israel goes on, it's entirely believable.

 

However, I'm not a politician in a party that should be on high alert for antisemitism.

 

You are literally spouting the xenophobic trash the Labour party are trying to stamp out.

 

To suggest the Israeli military have a restraining technique of kneeling on Palestinians necks shows you have no clue of the spot light they are under on a daily basis.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

You are literally spouting the xenophobic trash the Labour party are trying to stamp out.

 

To suggest the Israeli military have a restraining technique of kneeling on Palestinians necks shows you have no clue of the spot light they are under on a daily basis.

 

 

 

If you can point out where I suggested that the Israeli military have a technique that involves kneeling on anyone's neck, I'll be impressed.

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5 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

If you can point out where I suggested that the Israeli military have a technique that involves kneeling on anyone's neck, I'll be impressed.


Phil’s been on the Shiraz again..... I’d like to know specifically why US police officers are trained by Israel though....that would be interesting....

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8 hours ago, Phil said:

 

You are literally spouting the xenophobic trash the Labour party are trying to stamp out.

 

To suggest the Israeli military have a restraining technique of kneeling on Palestinians necks shows you have no clue of the spot light they are under on a daily basis.

 

 

Hey Phil, that beloved Tory government of yours are doing great. Just like the previous ones you helped elect but better. And thanks again for your insightful, intelligent contributions xxx

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7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

If you can point out where I suggested that the Israeli military have a technique that involves kneeling on anyone's neck, I'll be impressed.

 

It's highlighted in bold in the quote you are replying to.

 

"I mean, I could believe that it's an Israeli police technique"

 

 

fyi, the Israeli police dont enforce law in Palestine, the military do.

 

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1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:


Phil’s been on the Shiraz again..... I’d like to know specifically why US police officers are trained by Israel though....that would be interesting....

 

Because they are the best in the world.  Lookup krav maga.

 

Fyi, Krav maga get a bad reputation because of its no nonsense approach.  But, it categorically does not advocate kneeling on a neck as a restraining technique.  Krav maga would mandate you restrain (handcuff) and remove the threat (put in back of the van).   Most special forces are taught it as it highlights things like when you are fighting 4 vs 1, step a foot behind a doorway to reduce the threat vector.  Simple but effective.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Alex said:

Hey Phil, that beloved Tory government of yours are doing great. Just like the previous ones you helped elect but better. And thanks again for your insightful, intelligent contributions xxx

 

Advocating Xenophobia?  Nice.  New low Alex.

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9 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Because they are the best in the world.  Lookup krav maga.

 

Fyi, Krav maga get a bad reputation because of its no nonsense approach.  But, it categorically does not advocate kneeling on a neck as a restraining technique.  Krav maga would mandate you restrain (handcuff) and remove the threat (put in back of the van).   Most special forces are taught it as it highlights things like when you are fighting 4 vs 1, step a foot behind a doorway to reduce the threat vector.  Simple but effective.

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Advocating Xenophobia?  Nice.  New low Alex.

Is this meant to be the Dominic Cummings follow up to your Mark Francois tribute act? 

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

It's highlighted in bold in the quote you are replying to.

 

"I mean, I could believe that it's an Israeli police technique"

 

 

fyi, the Israeli police dont enforce law in Palestine, the military do.

 

 

Finding myself able to believe something is not equivalent to suggesting it happened.

 

Basic comprehension ffs.

 

I will concede to have used Israeli police and special forces interchangeably in this but i hardly see that it's relevant.

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10 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

They give seminars apparently, including in the state Floyd was killed. There is loads of reporting on this, idk why you've decided to challenge me on it.

 

Because it’s a casual link.
 

Have the Israeli’s provided some training to various US police forces? Yes

 

Have police forces all over the world, including in the US, knelt on people’s necks long before that training was delivered? Of course they have

 

I lived in America for 6 months across 6 or 7 states and there are huge differences across police departments from county to county, let alone state to state. NYPD inner city police tactics and training are very different to those given in rural Georgia, or Alabama.
 

Surely you can see why vast generalisations against Israel are an issue, especially given the context of the anti Semitic issues in the Labour Party in recent years. And particularly when shared by a prominent member of the Labour Party 

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3 hours ago, PaddockLad said:


Phil’s been on the Shiraz again..... I’d like to know specifically why US police officers are trained by Israel though....that would be interesting....

 

It probably is as Phil says on this. Israel have a ruthless and no nonsense approach to most things, along with quite a lot of perpetual experience in quelling unrest.

 

As I've mentioned repeatedly though, it doesn't look like they've actually trained in this technique. And I still feel that even if they had, it would be on the US' head nonetheless.

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1 minute ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Because it’s a casual link.
 

Have the Israeli’s provided some training to various US police forces? Yes

 

Have police forces all over the world, including in the US, knelt on people’s necks long before that training was delivered? Of course they have

 

I lived in America for 6 months across 6 or 7 states and there are huge differences across police departments from county to county, let alone state to state. NYPD inner city police tactics and training are very different to those given in rural Georgia, or Alabama.
 

Surely you can see why vast generalisations against Israel are an issue, especially given the context of the anti Semitic issues in the Labour Party in recent years. And particularly when shared by a prominent member of the Labour Party 

 

Have you read all my posts on this?

 

If not, please do. "Surely I can see..." yes, I can. Which is why i posted about these exact points too.

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18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Have you read all my posts on this?

 

If not, please do. "Surely I can see..." yes, I can. Which is why i posted about these exact points too.


No. But my response quoted your post that appeared to be linking the death of George Floyd to training from Israel. Which, as I’ve explained above, is a stretch and a half. 

To clarify, what did you mean by that post?

 

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