The OFFICIAL Transfer Rumours Thread

[The Fish 8989]

Not sure how they would make a name for themselves when winning trophies and finishing mid table are the requirements hardly reputation enhancing.

Play good football, progress in the league, cup runs.

 

To be honest it's dead easy for a manager from a "lesser" league to see his public profile increase simply by managing in the Premier League.

[The Fish 8989]

Not sure how they'd enhance their reputation given the restrictions i.e. dont win cups finish mid table

 

Premier League is one of the most watched leagues in the world, it's marketed as the best league in the world, just by being in the league he'll be under more focus than if he were, say, plying his trade in the Bundesliga.

[David Kelly 1117]

Reckon there's been a good success rate.

 

Debuchy - French International

Janmaat - Dutch International fresh from the world cup

Mbiwa - French International and captain of the champions

Haidara

Santon - Itallian International playing for Inter

Sissoko - French International

Tiote - Ivoy Coast International from the Dutch champions

Cabaye - French international and captain of the champions

Marveaux

Perez

Cisse - Senegal international

 

Jury is still out on Cabella, S de Jong, Riviere for me.

 

Some of those players haven't been successful here, but I'd blame Pardew & the coaches before the players, especially when they've been good elsewhere, average to shit here, then good elsewhere.

See above comments on the players. Most of the ones you've mentioned were full internationals before they signed so he hardly unearthed gems. But yes most of them have been reasonably successful. But you failled to mention Amalfitano, Luuk De Jong, Kevin Mbabu, Abeid, Obertan etc. There have clearly been some right duds too. Hence mixed success.

[trooper 940]

"Play good football" yes "progress in the league" anywhere between 6th & 17th "cup runs" ha ha ha.

[The Fish 8989]

See above comments on the players. Most of the ones you've mentioned were full internationals before they signed so he hardly unearthed gems. But yes most of them have been reasonably successful. But you failled to mention Amalfitano, Luuk De Jong, Kevin Mbabu, Abeid, Obertan etc. There have clearly been some right duds too. Hence mixed success.

Fuck me, you're harsh on poor old Graham.

 

He provides some really good players, but that's not good enough because they're international class. He provides a good number of success, but that's not good enough because of Amalfitano. Tell you what, he's been a much better scout than we've had previously.

 

 

Fwiw Obertan was Pardew wasn't it?

 

Can't believe you're writing off Mbabu and Abeid off mind.

[David Kelly 1117]

Fuck me, you're harsh on poor old Graham.

 

He provides some really good players, but that's not good enough because they're international class. He provides a good number of success, but that's not good enough because of Amalfitano. Tell you what, he's been a much better scout than we've had previously.

 

 

Fwiw Obertan was Pardew wasn't it?

 

Can't believe you're writing off Mbabu and Abeid off mind.

All I'm saying is it doesn't take a genius scout to see that an international for France, Itally etc is a good player. We seem to have done well with some of those players in terms of contract clause information (Cabaye being the prime example) and if that's down to him I give him full credit for that. And clearly he's better than what we had before but that wasn't much was it?

 

There's rumors that Obertan was Pardew's choice the same as Ba but who really knows? Cabaye could have also been for all we know.

 

From what I've heard about Mbabu I'm definitely writing him off and from what I've seen of Abeid he wouldn't be playing for any other team in our league so yes I'm afraid I'm writing him too. I hope to be proved wrong and will happily admit it if I am.

[The Fish 8989]

All I'm saying is it doesn't take a genius scout to see that an international for France, Itally etc is a good player. We seem to have done well with some of those players in terms of contract clause information (Cabaye being the prime example) and if that's down to him I give him full credit for that. And clearly he's better than what we had before but that wasn't much was it?

 

There's rumors that Obertan was Pardew's choice the same as Ba but who really knows? Cabaye could have also been for all we know.

 

From what I've heard about Mbabu I'm definitely writing him off and from what I've seen of Abeid he wouldn't be playing for any other team in our league so yes I'm afraid I'm writing him too. I hope to be proved wrong and will happily admit it if I am.

He's also better than most teams in the league have.

 

Look at who sunderland, Stoke, Aston Villa, Hull, Burnley, Leicester, QPR, and that lot tend to buy. Top team cast-offs. Occasionally they get it right, but more often than not (and therefore a worse return than Carr) they get it wrong.

[David Kelly 1117]

He's also better than most teams in the league have.

 

Look at who sunderland, Stoke, Aston Villa, Hull, Burnley, Leicester, QPR, and that lot tend to buy. Top team cast-offs. Occasionally they get it right, but more often than not (and therefore a worse return than Carr) they get it wrong.

You can't class Stoke in with the others their. They are far out performing us on no more of a budget and less of a reputation.

 

It's also wrong to look at Leciester, Burnley and even QPR. None of those are established premier league clubs so they don't have the oppertunity we have to sign better players. Hull are probably in that category too.

 

Sunderland and Villa (in particular as they seem to have been working on a similar model to us) I'll give you.

[Dr Gloom 19824]

Course they would. Newcastle remains a massive club. It's shit like this I can't understand. The chance of managing a Premier League club is huge and scores of good coaches would be jump at the chance, even with these restrictions in place.

 

We're among the top 10 clubs in the country and by virtue of that we're amongst the top 30 or so clubs on the planet. We're wealthy, we have history and a famous fanbase.

 

People saying no one would be interested is petulance.

You're right, we are literally batting away scores of good coaches, all desperate to work for sports direct united

[The Fish 8989]

You can't class Stoke in with the others their. They are far out performing us on no more of a budget and less of a reputation.

 

It's also wrong to look at Leciester, Burnley and even QPR. None of those are established premier league clubs so they don't have the oppertunity we have to sign better players. Hull are probably in that category too.

 

Sunderland and Villa (in particular as they seem to have been working on a similar model to us) I'll give you.

I'm not talking about them in terms of anything than scouting.

 

Also, sunderland and Villa aren't employing the same transfer strategy as we are. They both dramatically over-spend, hoping for a quick fix to whatever trouble they're in at the time. No long term strategy, just thrashing wildly to try and stay afloat.

[The Fish 8989]

You're right, we are literally batting away scores of good coaches, all desperate to work for sports direct united

No you're right not a single qualified coach would even say the name "Newcastle" without turning three times and spitting for fear of being afflicted by the cursed club.

 

[David Kelly 1117]

I'm not talking about them in terms of anything than scouting.

 

Also, sunderland and Villa aren't employing the same transfer strategy as we are. They both dramatically over-spend, hoping for a quick fix to whatever trouble they're in at the time. No long term strategy, just thrashing wildly to try and stay afloat.

I didn't mean that Sunderland are, just Villa. What you suggest is certainly Sunderlands policy. I don't agree that Villa's is like that though. They have been looking for young hungry players on the cheap who they can improve and (presumably) sell on for a profit. They haven't been doing it as long as us but it seems to me this is what they are doing now. Of course they are happier to bring in short term loans or older players than we are.

 

You have to link the scouting with who they sign (we don't have any information on who they have recommended but didn't sign). Part of the scouting has to be tailored to who they have a chance of signing. What I'm saying is that our status affords us the opportuity to sign players those other teams can't. Therefore their scouts have to recommend lower quality players than ours because SDJ (for example) most likely wouldn't have signed for Burnley a team who had just been promoted and had only had one season in the premier league previously. The same way as Diego Costa wouldn't have signed for us. It's not a reflection on Carr that we didn't sign him or Alexis.

Edited April 29, 2015 by David Kelly

[trooper 940]

If the job is so inviting why haven't they got somebody lined up to start as soon as the final whistle goes against West Ham. As we've been told the search will continue in the summer again it's not the club its the people who own and run it, and the constraints imposed upon the person who would take the job. Again that's why we have Carver now & possibly for the future

[The Fish 8989]

I didn't mean that Sunderland are, just Villa. What you suggest is certainly Sunderlands policy. I don't agree that Villa's is like that though. They have been looking for young hungry players on the cheap who they can improve and (presumably) sell on for a profit. They haven't been doing it as long as us but it seems to me this is what they are doing now. Of course they are happier to bring in short term loans or older players than we are.

 

You have to link the scouting with who they sign (we don't have any information on who they have recommended but didn't sign). Part of the scouting has to be tailored to who they have a chance of signing. What I'm saying is that our status affords us the opportuity to sign players those other teams can't. Therefore their scouts have to recommend lower quality players than ours because SDJ (for example) most likely wouldn't have signed for Burnley a team who had just been promoted and had only had one season in the premier league previously. The same way as Diego Costa wouldn't have signed for us. It's not a reflection on Carr that we didn't sign him or Alexis.

 

 

Really?

 

Villa signed Joe Cole, Phillipe Senderos, and Kieran Richardson this year. They and sunderland have two of the highest proportionate net spends in the Premier League. With fuck all to show for it. And Aston Villa could certainly trade on their name, their history, their stadia & fanbase as much as we do.

[The Fish 8989]

If the job is so inviting why haven't they got somebody lined up to start as soon as the final whistle goes against West Ham. As we've been told the search will continue in the summer again it's not the club its the people who own and run it, and the constraints imposed upon the person who would take the job. Again that's why we have Carver now & possibly for the future

Because people being interested and Ashley & his cronies being interested in them are two disparate things?

[trooper 940]

They had over 90 applicants and ended up with Carver

[David Kelly 1117]

Really?

 

Villa signed Joe Cole, Phillipe Senderos, and Kieran Richardson this year. They and sunderland have two of the highest proportionate net spends in the Premier League. With fuck all to show for it. And Aston Villa could certainly trade on their name, their history, their stadia & fanbase as much as we do.

Yeah this season Villa have looked more at getting some experience in. I was thinking more about the last couple of season when they'd signed the likes of Benteke, Okore, Bacuna etc. They haven't yet cashed in on the like of Benteke and Okore but both have had bad injuries. That's probably why their net spend has been high.

But I'm agreeing with you that they haven't perfomed as well as us. I agreed the first time you said it. It was the teams other than Villa and Sunderland that I said was unfair to match up against us. Actually stoke was fair and we come up short.

[The Fish 8989]

They had over 90 applicants and ended up with Carver

Maybe, or maybe they've had 90 applications, only 30 of them worth a look, of those 10 are worth approaching, of those only 5 are interested in waiting until the summer before they join and willing to work under the restrictions Ashley & Charnley lay out, so NUFC stick with Carver expecting him to accrue sufficient points to ensure Premier League survival this season before employing someone as Head Coach at the end of the season?

[The Fish 8989]

Yeah this season Villa have looked more at getting some experience in. I was thinking more about the last couple of season when they'd signed the likes of Benteke, Okore, Bacuna etc. They haven't yet cashed in on the like of Benteke and Okore but both have had bad injuries. That's probably why their net spend has been high.

But I'm agreeing with you that they haven't perfomed as well as us. I agreed the first time you said it. It was the teams other than Villa and Sunderland that I said was unfair to match up against us. Actually stoke was fair and we come up short.

 

How so?

[The Fish 8989]

[David Kelly 1117]

How so?

Beacuse Stoke by tradition and brand a smaller club than us who are spending less money than us and acheiving better results. Ok they aren't recouping as much in but do you think their fans give a fuck about that? I suppose I should have said that I'm basing success on what it does for the football team rather than the accounts.

[David Kelly 1117]

Stoke's sales there look incredibly low. Going by Ashley's ideas they should certainly have been relegated by now!

[The Fish 8989]

Beacuse Stoke by tradition and brand a smaller club than us who are spending less money than us and acheiving better results. Ok they aren't recouping as much in but do you think their fans give a fuck about that? I suppose I should have said that I'm basing success on what it does for the football team rather than the accounts.

Ok, because I'm purely talking about the scouts.

 

Carr has delivered time and again and it's only our coaching (or lack of) and transfer policy that means we're doing as badly as we are.

 

Since Carr we've not been short of good players. Imagine the side we could have had if we'd bought who we have, but not sold without a fight.

 

Krul

Debuchy/Janmaat Colo Mbiwa/Taylor Lascelle Santon/Haidara

Tiote/Colback/Abeid

Cabaye/Sissoko/de Jong/Cabella

Ben Arfa-----------------------------------------------Aarons

Ba Cisse

 

Not bad, eh?

[David Kelly 1117]

Ok, because I'm purely talking about the scouts.

 

Carr has delivered time and again and it's only our coaching (or lack of) and transfer policy that means we're doing as badly as we are.

 

Since Carr we've not been short of good players. Imagine the side we could have had if we'd bought who we have, but not sold without a fight.

 

Krul

Debuchy/Janmaat Colo Mbiwa/Taylor Lascelle Santon/Haidara

Tiote/Colback/Abeid

Cabaye/Sissoko/de Jong/Cabella

Ben Arfa-----------------------------------------------Aarons

Ba Cisse

Not bad, eh?

 

There's a few areas there that I think are a bit short (Aaron is questionable since we've hardly seen anything of him and and centreback isn't great still) but yes that's pretty good.

 

I assume what you mean by that first bit is that all Stokes success (fuck me am I arguing Stoke as a success? Shows how bad we are) is down to their Management/Coaching and transfer policy rather than their scouts and ours, as limited as it is, is all down to Carr and despite of our managers/coaches and transfer policy? Come on, looking at them impartially Stokes scouts as part of a teams have been more of a sucess than ours. That isn't a dig at Carr as such, again I'm just pointing out he's no superman.

[The Fish 8989]

There's a few areas there that I think are a bit short (Aaron is questionable since we've hardly seen anything of him and and centreback isn't great still) but yes that's pretty good.

 

I assume what you mean by that first bit is that all Stokes success (fuck me am I arguing Stoke as a success? Shows how bad we are) is down to their Management/Coaching and transfer policy rather than their scouts and ours, as limited as it is, is all down to Carr and despite of our managers/coaches and transfer policy? Come on, looking at them impartially Stokes scouts as part of a teams have been more of a sucess than ours. That isn't a dig at Carr as such, again I'm just pointing out he's no superman.

No, my point is that the players that Carr has got through the filter, have have been more hit than miss and that those players who have been hit and very quickly been moved on. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that with a coach of, say, Koeman's ability (a manager that would very much be on our radar if we were run differently) could have taken a squad that I detailed above to much better than things than Stoke.

 

My point is that the hits have been hits despite Pardew, Carver, Stone and Woodman. An opinion that isn't unreasonable, unpopular or unbiased.

 

Especially given the opinions of Pardew, Carver, Stone and Woodman in terms of coaching abilityare poor and the evidence to support those opinions are all pretty damning.