Tooj 17 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 We're well past the questions need to be asked stage about our players getting themselves out with ridiculous shots. Something drastic needs to happen. If Buttler does well in the next few matches and with Rashid proving he can cut it at test level then it wouldn't surprise me to see Moeen out in the summer. This is assuming when Hameed is back that Jennings goes to three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 We're well past the questions need to be asked stage about our players getting themselves out with ridiculous shots. Something drastic needs to happen. If Buttler does well in the next few matches and with Rashid proving he can cut it at test level then it wouldn't surprise me to see Moeen out in the summer. This is assuming when Hameed is back that Jennings goes to three. Andrew Samson on TMS was saying he averages nearly 90 batting at number 7 and 25 everywhere else. 4 definitely seems a bit high for him in tests. If he retains his place you might see a line-up something like Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen, Woakes, (one from) Wood/Rashid/Finn, Broad, Anderson. Obviously Finn would bat at 10 or 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 That's actually not a bad score after the mini collapse in the final session. Anything above 350 will be competitive - I wouldn't fancy batting last given how much it's been turning and bouncing on day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Could've been better but at 250-5 it could've been a lot worse. Obvious thing to say but the morning session tomorrow is massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 We're well past the questions need to be asked stage about our players getting themselves out with ridiculous shots. Something drastic needs to happen. If Buttler does well in the next few matches and with Rashid proving he can cut it at test level then it wouldn't surprise me to see Moeen out in the summer. This is assuming when Hameed is back that Jennings goes to three. It does happen way too often for someone playing that far up the order. Him and Butler would seem the most at threat if Hameed and Jennings can cement their positions. With Rashid looking like he can be a reliable bowler now, we probably aren't going to need a second spinner most of the time so if Ali can't step up as a batsman then he has no place. But Butler is also vulnerable. Do we want to be playing him as a specialist batsman at 7? If they give Butler the gloves and just use Bairstow as a batsman that might be the option but I don't think they really want to take the gloves off him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Could've been better but at 250-5 it could've been a lot worse. Obvious thing to say but the morning session tomorrow is massive. Indeed, it's a cliche but if we're still batting after lunch then we're right in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Buttler as a specialist batsman at 7 is a bit odd. Big chance for him tomorrow though as there are clearly places up for grabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 It does happen way too often for someone playing that far up the order. Him and Butler would seem the most at threat if Hameed and Jennings can cement their positions. With Rashid looking like he can be a reliable bowler now, we probably aren't going to need a second spinner most of the time so if Ali can't step up as a batsman then he has no place. But Butler is also vulnerable. Do we want to be playing him as a specialist batsman at 7? If they give Butler the gloves and just use Bairstow as a batsman that might be the option but I don't think they really want to take the gloves off him. I think the issue there is that Bairstow and Buttler are both still learning as wicketkeepers but the former now has a lot more experience (especially recently) behind the stumps in the longer form of the game which I don't think the management will want to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Buttler as a specialist batsman at 7 is a bit odd. Big chance for him tomorrow though as there are clearly places up for grabs. It would be normally but having the likes of Stokes, Woakes, Moeen and Rashid in the side means it's less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Of course it doesn't help Ali the amount he's been moved up and down the order. I read the other day that he was saying he wanted a chance to stick to one position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I think the issue there is that Bairstow and Buttler are both still learning as wicketkeepers but the former now has a lot more experience (especially recently) behind the stumps in the longer form of the game which I don't think the management will want to waste. Aye it's perfectly understandable especially as Bairstow is improving quite a bit. It's just he seems like he would be more suited to playing further up the order and it's a lot of work for him to do playing there and keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Aye it's perfectly understandable especially as Bairstow is improving quite a bit. It's just he seems like he would be more suited to playing further up the order and it's a lot of work for him to do playing there and keeping. I think, with that in mind, batting at 5 is the highest you could have him and even then it's probably not ideal. If Buttler does well at 7 though he doesn't have to stay there so he could progress up the order in time. 5 is probably the highest you'd have him too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I think, with that in mind, batting at 5 is the highest you could have him and even then it's probably not ideal. If Buttler does well at 7 though he doesn't have to stay there so he could progress up the order in time. 5 is probably the highest you'd have him too though. Yeah that's possible but he does look better suited to playing down the order and hopefully being in a position where he can come in and take the game away from the opposition. There's no doubt he's a very talented player but I'm not convinced he's the type who can hang around if the pressure is on him to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Someone like Buttler should play positively whatever the state of the game. That's his strength. The balance at test level which he has yet to master is between getting bat on ball and playing shots and reining in the silly dismissals. It is highly unusual to have so many allrounders. It's easy to criticise Moeen but he just seems to play his game regardless of what position he's batting in too and he has been moved around a lot. Looks elegant when he's in but you sense a silly dismissal is rarely far away. Still, an average of 33 with the bat and 39 with the ball isn't bad. Ideally he wants those figures to be closer together or reversed to continue batting as high as 4 or 5. I can see Rashid taking frontline spinning duties on the strength of this tour now Cook trust him, which might help Moeen on both counts by taking the pressure off him - not that he ever has the look of a man playing under pressure. Edited December 8, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 No but he's stuggled when the pressure has been on his bowling (i.e. when he's been the one needed to bowl a side out in the 4th innings like in the Windies that time). But, aye his record isn't to be sniffed at at Test level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I agree. But a lot was asked of him when he came into the side as a batter who could bowl a bit. He's far from disgraced himself and we could see both sides of his game improve if he's no longer being asked to spin us to victory while continuing to bat in the lower/middle order rather than up at 4. What I was getting at was he just looks like the world's most laid back man, playing in his little bubble. Not a bad mindset for a pro cricketer. Edited December 8, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Think we've certainly got a competitive score on this pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yup. England's to lose from here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I wouldn't go that far like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) england have never lost a test match in the subcontinent after posting 400 in the first innings. they were saying on TMS earlier that the highest score in the first innings at the Wankhede by a team that went on to lose the match is 347. mind that was also england so we probably shouldn't rule it out. Edited December 9, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's looking like fairly tough going for our bowlers so far like. The spinners might get more out of it when the ball gets older mind. That seems to be how it went for them. Of course they have better spinners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19856 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 and more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30506 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Need a bit of luck here like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34739 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Another premature 69 itt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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