The Cricket Thread

[Dr Gloom 19944]

2 minutes ago, trophyshy said:

I’ll look forward to lording it over my Aussie mates that we won the craic trophy.  

yesterday’s climax was test cricket at its nail-biting best. It probably would have petered out to a draw without the declaration because of all the time lost to weather.

 

We were the aggressor throughout, had them on the back foot and it almost worked. I’ve buying tickets in the sausage carriage for the baz train. 

[Alex 30667]

21 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

disagree that it was stupid. He won the test match last time he made this type of aggressive early first innings declaration. It can work. It’s designed to give yourself enough time to win the game, by taking the draw out of the equation, even if it increases your chances of losing - and it almost worked.  We would have won if we’d taken those missed chances and instead we’d be talking about how stokes and baz are innovative.

 

Of course you can also be made to look naive if it goes tits up as it did this time. 

 

It’s unsettling because it goes against conventional wisdom. But that’s the whole point of what they’re trying to do. They’re rewriting the rules of test cricket and putting bums on seats. And by playing ultra aggressively, we’ve got australia on the defensive. I hope that continues across the series, I think it will and that it’s our best chance of winning. I think we win at least a couple of tests in the series with better pitches and Foakes taking chances behind the stumps instead of Bairstow fluffing them. 

I don’t know what makes you think they’re about to bring Foakes back in. But you’re almost in full agreement with the rest of us, if you think that. I.e. ‘Bazball’ with a modicum of sense with the recklessness reined in a bit. But then you seem to be fully justifying their approach on the other hand. Not trying to be clever, I just mean I don’t see any changes to the approach re: the wicketkeeper. So you aren’t going to see that sensible compromise imo. It’ll only be injuries (like to Moeen perhaps, with Lord’s coming too soon) or necessary rotation of the quicks with the series being packed into such a short space of time. Anyway, I think there’s about 10 different things at least that were tactical or selection decisions that contributed to that loss. Irrespective of agreeing in principle with the philosophy, I think it’s fair enough to criticise that. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Alex

[Toonpack 6963]

7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I think they’ll have the last laugh in this series. And even if they don’t, it’ll be good craic along the way

 

I'm all for bazball and the aggressive approach, but I'm not that keen on daft decisions, like taking your best batsman who is being successfully aggressive out of the game, by choice, that is/was stupid.

 

As for good criac, it's the Aussies, there is no good craic unless you win.

[Gemmill 35135]

Renegades like me and Gloom liked the declaration. Fanny batter merchants, the lot of you.

[RobinRobin 9338]

Agree with Gemmill and Gloomy (gulp). The declaration wasn't the main issue.

Catches win matches! We dropped about 5 which would probably have put the Aussies about 50 to 75 further back and which they wouldn't have made up. 

I also agree that Foakes won't be back unless there's an injury to a batter which allows YJB to bat only. 

[Alex 30667]

All this bollocks about rewriting the rules. Hanse Cronje was making these sorts of declarations decades ago 

[RobinRobin 9338]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

All this bollocks about rewriting the rules. Hanse Cronje was making these sorts of declarations decades ago 

That's not a recommendation 🙂 

[Toonpack 6963]

3 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

Agree with Gemmill and Gloomy (gulp). The declaration wasn't the main issue.

Catches win matches! We dropped about 5 which would probably have put the Aussies about 50 to 75 further back and which they wouldn't have made up. 

I also agree that Foakes won't be back unless there's an injury to a batter which allows YJB to bat only. 

 

No-one (well I'm not) is saying it was the main factor, simply that it was bloody stupid.

 

Johnny Iron Gloves (viking name) cost us the game. They chose Bairstow on the basis he's the better bat - i.e. he'd score more runs but THEN they gave runs away i.e. They voluntarily undermined the rationale of why he was in the team ahead of the guy who would have saved runs (and is himself a decent bat).

 

They'll stick with same team, subject to Moe's finger I reckon. If Moeen can't go, assuming Bairstow keeps the gloves, I'd bring Wood in and Root will have to be the spinner, or they may rest Jimmy for Wood, then I'd bring Foakes in for Moeen, but they'll do something else.

[Dr Gloom 19944]

59 minutes ago, Alex said:

I don’t know what makes you think they’re about to bring Foakes back in. But you’re almost in full agreement with the rest of us, if you think that. I.e. ‘Bazball’ with a modicum of sense with the recklessness reined in a bit. But then you seem to be fully justifying their approach on the other hand. Not trying to be clever, I just mean I don’t see any changes to the approach re: the wicketkeeper. So you aren’t going to see that sensible compromise imo. It’ll only be injuries (like to Moeen perhaps, with Lord’s coming too soon) or necessary rotation of the quicks with the series being packed into such a short space of time. Anyway, I think there’s about 10 different things at least that were tactical or selection decisions that contributed to that loss. Irrespective of agreeing in principle with the philosophy, I think it’s fair enough to criticise that. 

i don’t think they necessarily will bring back Foakes. That’s just what I’d do - he played pretty much every game of the Bazball era so far before being dropped inexplicably for the ashes. I understand why they wanted to bring back Bairstow but I would play him higher up the order, probably ahead of Crawley, who isn’t good enough at this level, despite playing the way they want him to. 

Moeen surely isn’t going to be fit for Lords so I imagine it’s Wood in for him with Root offering some part time spin. I don’t think you can throw in a rookie spinner to an ashes series and what’s the alternative - Dom Bess? I’d rather go with four seamers. 
 

I think if you look at the declaration through conventional test cricket lens, of course it’s reckless. And of course they left themselves open to criticism if they blew it. That was always going to be the case. But this isn’t a conventional approach. It will take a while to get used to it. It remains to be seen whether it wins us this series. I still think we have a great chance despite this setback. The Aussies looked rattled for large parts. I love how the roles have been reversed - we’re playing like Australian bullies and we have them playing reactive, defensive cricket you would usually associate with England. 
 

Keep the faith. They have won 11 out of 14 playing like this. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[sammynb 2929]

You're all looking at it from a very one sided perspective (understandably) but whether they are cunts or not, the Australian team would have just blocked their way to a draw if all your "what ifs" had actually happened.

We currently retain the Ashes, all they need to do is draw every match and they retain the urn. England have to try and turn the screws otherwise they will get nowt.

 

BTW regarding Smith, his head is filled with the fact he is retiring from test cricket, most likely at the end of our summer, so it's possible he is distracted.

[RobinRobin 9338]

2 minutes ago, sammynb said:

BTW regarding Smith, his head is filled with the fact he is retiring from test cricket, most likely at the end of our summer, so it's possible he is distracted.

Same with Warner who wants his farewell at the SCG but who should probably have been dropped already were it not for a double hundred in the Boxing Day test. 

Hopefully he keeps getting low scores throughout the Ashes and then gets dropped for next summer, so he doesn't get what he wants. 🙂 

[Dr Gloom 19944]

5 minutes ago, sammynb said:

You're all looking at it from a very one sided perspective (understandably) but whether they are cunts or not, the Australian team would have just blocked their way to a draw if all your "what ifs" had actually happened.

We currently retain the Ashes, all they need to do is draw every match and they retain the urn. England have to try and turn the screws otherwise they will get nowt.

 

BTW regarding Smith, his head is filled with the fact he is retiring from test cricket, most likely at the end of our summer, so it's possible he is distracted.

 

i don't see much changing from england's POV, other than some tweaks to the line up. we will continue to play exactly the same way. i will be amazed if there are any draws. 

 

i see the series ending 3-2, not sure at this point to which team, but i see england beating australia at least one in this series playing like this. 

[sammynb 2929]

6 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

Same with Warner who wants his farewell at the SCG but who should probably have been dropped already were it not for a double hundred in the Boxing Day test. 

Hopefully he keeps getting low scores throughout the Ashes and then gets dropped for next summer, so he doesn't get what he wants. 🙂 

 

That pair are the main reason I struggle to give a flying fuck about the national team (I have to deal with it for work, so I know more than I care too), they should never have been allowed back in.

Being related to Doug Walters, it actually makes our family sad that the team is filled with cunts like Smith and Warner. Australian cricketers are suppose to be larrikins like Doug, Merv, Warnie, not cheating wankers.

Edited June 21, 2023 by sammynb

[sammynb 2929]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

i see the series ending 3-2, not sure at this point to which team, but i see england beating australia at least one in this series playing like this. 

 

Aren't you meant to be fucking things up in the transfers thread!

[Dr Gloom 19944]

34 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

Aren't you meant to be fucking things up in the transfers thread!

 

[spongebob toonpants 3629]

Put me on Team Gloom. This team had won 1 in 17 before "bazball", and were absolutely dire to watch 

I've got no problem with the  declaration, the test match was one of the best I've ever seen, and will be talked about for years.

Now let's do them 4-1

[Toonpack 6963]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

I think if you look at the declaration through conventional test cricket lens, of course it’s reckless. And of course they left themselves open to criticism if they blew it. That was always going to be the case. But this isn’t a conventional approach. It will take a while to get used to it. It remains to be seen whether it wins us this series. I still think we have a great chance despite this setback. The Aussies looked rattled for large parts. I love how the roles have been reversed - we’re playing like Australian bullies and we have them playing reactive, defensive cricket you would usually associate with England. 
 

Keep the faith. They have won 11 out of 14 playing like this. 

 

It's nowt to do with convention, we gave away the wicket of the World #1 batsman (as ranked today) when he was absolutely flying on day one of a 5 day match, that makes zero sense through any lens IMO, if it'd been 9/10/11 in partnership and we wanted to try and "get one tonight" I'd have way less problem with that, but to stop the best at what he does from doing what he does, by choice, on day one, it was (and always will be) fucking mental.

 

They've won 11 out of 14 playing aggressive cricket, Root was being aggressive and he was stopped, by his own side.

[Dr Gloom 19944]

10 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Put me on Team Gloom. This team had won 1 in 17 before "bazball", and were absolutely dire to watch 

I've got no problem with the  declaration, the test match was one of the best I've ever seen, and will be talked about for years.

Now let's do them 4-1

 

that's the spirit brother. it's shit or bust on the baz train for me 

[RobinRobin 9338]

Perhaps we should stop arguing about the declaration and its effect. 

As I have quite rightly said - catches win matches. 🙂 

[Dr Gloom 19944]

2 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

Perhaps we should stop arguing about the declaration and its effect. 

As I have quite rightly said - catches win matches. 🙂 

 

yup. the missed chances are why we lost. the declaration gave us a chance to win which we otherwise might have been denied

[sammynb 2929]

24 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

 

Job done I see.

[Alex 30667]

2 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

That's not a recommendation 🙂 

[Dr Gloom 19944]

13 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

It's nowt to do with convention, we gave away the wicket of the World #1 batsman (as ranked today) when he was absolutely flying on day one of a 5 day match, that makes zero sense through any lens IMO, if it'd been 9/10/11 in partnership and we wanted to try and "get one tonight" I'd have way less problem with that, but to stop the best at what he does from doing what he does, by choice, on day one, it was (and always will be) fucking mental.

 

They've won 11 out of 14 playing aggressive cricket, Root was being aggressive and he was stopped, by his own side.

 

i agree that it would have made more sense if root were out already. but i'm afraid to tell you that you're wrong on this. they are trying to rip up convention. none of this is supposed to make sense. that's exactly the point - they're trying to create chaos and completely disrupt the way the game is played. it'll work some games, in others it won't, and people will criticise (rightly, they lost) and doubt whether the approach is the right one. i dunno if this england are good enough to play like this against this australia team, but it's going to be fun finding out.  

[Toonpack 6963]

16 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

yup. the missed chances are why we lost. the declaration gave us a chance to win which we otherwise might have been denied

 

How?, it only took 30 minutes out of the game, 6 overs, it actually gave us more chance to lose than win, there were minimum 10 overs left when the Aussies won

 

 

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i agree that it would have made more sense if root were out already. but i'm afraid to tell you that you're wrong on this. they are trying to rip up convention. none of this is supposed to make sense. that's exactly the point - they're trying to create chaos and completely disrupt the way the game is played. it'll work some games, in others it won't, and people will criticise (rightly, they lost) and doubt whether the approach is the right one. i dunno if this england are good enough to play like this against this australia team, but it's going to be fun finding out.  

 

No, they are trying to win cricket matches.

 

As Agnew has said: "My big hope is that they keep creating chaos but just pick their moments to do so."

 

 

[Dr Gloom 19944]

1 minute ago, Toonpack said:

 

How?, it only took 30 minutes out of the game, 6 overs, it actually gave us more chance to lose than win, there were minimum 10 overs left when the Aussies won

 

 

 

No, they are trying to win cricket matches.

 

As Agnew has said: "My big hope is that they keep creating chaos but just pick their moments to do so."

 

 

 

the conventional approach would have been to bat on until root got out. he may have surived another half a session or 50/60 runs the way he was batting - even with the tail. that would have made the draw the most likely result.