Terrorism

[Alex 34717]

I sometimes watch those IFLTV interviews and I quite like Tony Bellew but I'm not sure his opinion on this counts for much.

[wykikitoon 19801]

Just now, Alex said:

I sometimes watch those IFLTV interviews and I quite like Tony Bellew but I'm not sure his opinion on this counts for much.

 

One of the rugby players I follow said he was spot on FFS.  Hmmmm deport a Brit, to where?  Bring back the death penalty or stone them FFS.

[Alex 34717]

Just now, wykikitoon said:

 

One of the rugby players I follow said he was spot on FFS.  Hmmmm deport a Brit, to where?  Bring back the death penalty or stone them FFS.

The same people wouldn't be happy if other countries deported their potential terrorists / extremists to places like the UK though.

[Dr Gloom 21756]

1 hour ago, Park Life said:

Amsterdam – The Dutch senate on Tuesday approved a law that would take away Dutch citizenship of jihadists with a double nationality, amidst fear over the return of jihadist fighters who have joined radical groups such as the Islamic State (ISIS) in Syria and Iraq.

The proposal allows the Minister of Security and Justice to revoke the Dutch nationality of citizens without any trial.

This includes Dutch fighters that have joined any group listed as a terrorist organization like al-Nusra Front or ISIS.''

 

http://aranews.net/2017/02/netherlands-revoke-citizenship-jihadists/

 

https://nsnbc.me/2017/02/08/netherlands-to-revoke-citizenship-of-jihadists-with-dual-citizenship/

 

seems entirely reasonable to me. 

[Alex 34717]

Yep. I'm all for letting anyone who wants to go to the paradisiacal state created by ISIS go too. Just don't let the fuckers back

[Park Life 71]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Yep. I'm all for letting anyone who wants to go to the paradisiacal state created by ISIS go too. Just don't let the fuckers back

That's what I'm sayin. Yet it transpires hundreds have been let back in. If the Dutch are on it (beacon of progressiveness) we need to get on it. And quick. If god forbid there is another attack over the next few weeks the whole thing is going to spin out of control.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Park Life

[Dr Gloom 21756]

i wouldn't go along with everything tony bellew says in that video, public executions and stoning ffs, but the i agree with the sentiment. anyone with links to these groups need to be deported or locked up. 

[Dr Gloom 21756]

and if they're known to the security people, it needs to be acted on quicker to stop this kind of thing happening again. 

[Dr Gloom 21756]

4 minutes ago, Park Life said:

That's what I'm sayin. Yet it transpires hundreds have been let back in. If the Dutch are on it (beacon of progressiveness) we need to get on it. And quick. If god forbid there is another attack over the next few weeks the whole thing is going to spin out of control.

 

send the buggers back

[adios 717]

14 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Hmmmm deport a Brit, to where?

Just give him a raft and a week's supplies tbh.

 

Is there a downside to deporting immigrants who commit crimes any worse than nicking a bar of chocolate?  Not that it's relevant with this lad.

[wykikitoon 19801]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

and if they're known to the security people, it needs to be acted on quicker to stop this kind of thing happening again. 

I was speaking to a lad at work today about this.

He said he saw an interview with an ex security guy.  Think it may  have been SAS.  He said we are too slow at acting.  Said if it was someone who was a threat to children, i.e had childporn on his PC and they knew about it they would act.  So if they know these people have terrorist items and especially have been to places like Libiya and Syria, then they need to act.

[Park Life 71]

This whole scenario is riddled with bad outcomes and unbalanced solutions. Community policing like that after the Brixton riots according to data made a difference with reg to keeping lines of communication open. Ghettoized radicalism as in Belgium (Molenbeek) where the police presence was 0 over time was only going to result in a tragic outcome. There are only a few ways insular communities rife with anger and frustration prone to the extremist message can be addressed. This involves local policing (expensive), outreach (de-radicalization) - expensive and doesn't seem to work or unfair and quasi-illegal responses with regard surveillance and profiling (Mi5 and the North London Mosque). There aren't clear cut solutions just a range of unbalanced or bad choices. In the short term it will be very tempting to 'hit back' in every way the state deems appropriate. The mood of the nation has to be watched closely. It's a very quick downhill from this point.

But I think we all agree there has to be a next step - whatever that is.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Park Life

[Park Life 71]

1 hour ago, Happy Face said:

 

 

That wasn't about surveillance, it was a response to internment camps being advocated.

 

They're still not equivalent obviously, and I had no intention of suggesting any equivalence, but it's all about proportional response.

 

I don't believe a proportionate response is to dispense with the just rule of law we have lived by for so long and lock up a percentage of the population without charge because of the fear they might do something.

 

Nor do I believe it's proportionate to put millions on watch lists that restrictthem from flying or ensure that when they do they face as much difficulty as possible and are detained as long as possible.  The numbers for that sort of thing should be closer to what Parky mentioned earlier.  Those under active suspicion.

 

I don't agree with using attacks as an excuse to gather all the communications of everyone on the planet either.  I think security services should concentrate on suspects and require a warrant to collect information on those individuals.

 

 

Adding people who have just been to a demo was ridiculous. As I was saying a couple of days ago there are moves under way to cull such lists to flag up a more cogent and analyzed list. Ultimately it will come down to the couple of thousand usual suspects. Mass surveillance is highly inefficient and wildly costly and only serves in creating a fog of data. But we know all this.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Park Life

[Happy Face 29]

Getting a little queasy about how people (twitter basically) are using this to twist election issues.

 

The NHS is brilliant 365 days a year, not just when responding to the twice a decade terrorist attacks that kill and injure dozens.

 

Using police numbers to raise fear levels is a traditional Tory tactic but thanks to the May cuts and the Corbyn re-balancing manifesto promise the opportunists are going as far as to pin the blame for the attack on May.  If you're playing that game then Chilcott was very clear that the Labour Prime minister was warned in 2003 that he was certain to see an increase in domestic terror attacks rather than a reducing the chances.

 

Even as a fully signed up, Corbyn avatar having, labour voter the glee with which people are re-tweeting that 2015 video of May being told what would happen strikes me as something that might alienate the people that had any tory sympathies in the first place.

 

[Rayvin 5150]

Just now, Happy Face said:

Getting a little queasy about how people (twitter basically) are using this to twist election issues.

 

The NHS is brilliant 365 days a year, not just when responding to the twice a decade terrorist attacks that kill and injure dozens.

 

Using police numbers to raise fear levels is a traditional Tory tactic but thanks to the May cuts and the Corbyn re-balancing manifesto promise the opportunists are going as far as to pin the blame for the attack on May.  If you're playing that game then Chilcott was very clear that the Labour Prime minister was warned in 2003 that he was certain to see an increase in domestic terror attacks rather than a reducing the chances.

 

Even as a fully signed up, Corbyn avatar having, labour voter the glee with which people are re-tweeting that 2015 video of May being told what would happen strikes me as something that might alienate the people that had any tory sympathies in the first place.

 

 

Seems to be being driven by UKIP though...?

[Tooj 17]

A long read but this nails it. 

 

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-manchester-attack-was-the-price-of-business-as-usual-6a74f385912f

[Alex 34717]

Good article but an unfortunate choice of words by Tooj

Edited May 25, 2017 by Alex

[Park Life 71]

Good read. How often have we gone on about Saudi Arabia in here and the double standards our Govt. displays?

[NJS 4355]

1 hour ago, Happy Face said:

Getting a little queasy about how people (twitter basically) are using this to twist election issues.

 

The NHS is brilliant 365 days a year, not just when responding to the twice a decade terrorist attacks that kill and injure dozens.

 

Using police numbers to raise fear levels is a traditional Tory tactic but thanks to the May cuts and the Corbyn re-balancing manifesto promise the opportunists are going as far as to pin the blame for the attack on May.  If you're playing that game then Chilcott was very clear that the Labour Prime minister was warned in 2003 that he was certain to see an increase in domestic terror attacks rather than a reducing the chances.

 

Even as a fully signed up, Corbyn avatar having, labour voter the glee with which people are re-tweeting that 2015 video of May being told what would happen strikes me as something that might alienate the people that had any tory sympathies in the first place.

 

Could mention Cameron's part in the destruction of Libya as well. 

[Kid Dynamite 6961]

3 hours ago, Tooj said:

A long read but this nails it. 

 

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-manchester-attack-was-the-price-of-business-as-usual-6a74f385912f

 

Bit of pseudo psychiatry going on in there. It's no secret that the majority of these idiots are disaffected loners, that's what makes them easy to recruit. They aren't psychotic though. Psychopathic maybe

[Howmanheyman 32595]

Bloke at wor place's daughter was one of the lasses killed down there, can't put a face to his name and he obviously isn't in. Poor cunt, I couldn't imagine it.

[ohhh_yeah 2929]

 

 

Violence erupted in the Philippines on Tuesday after the army raided the hideout of Isnilon Hapilon, a commander of the Abu Sayyaf group. They responded with an attack in Marawi and by beheading a police chief. President Rodrigo Duterte has declared martial law across the southern third of the country.

 

[Ken 119]

21 hours ago, Park Life said:

That's what I'm sayin. Yet it transpires hundreds have been let back in. If the Dutch are on it (beacon of progressiveness) we need to get on it. And quick. If god forbid there is another attack over the next few weeks the whole thing is going to spin out of control.

Australia already does this, and so too now, as you have mentioned, the Netherlands.

[Ken 119]

23 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Given that Pandora's Box is open on Islamic Extremism (and I agree with you on why we are targetted), it does seem that the solution has to be pragmatic rather than perhaps balanced. While very very few of us ever will be killed by terrorism, it's an absolutely toxic issue in society that hurts everyone, including Muslims.

 

The only 'strategy' I can see for dealing with it is to eliminate Islam through a battle of ideologies. But this involves just enduring the terrorism and hoping we can stop it pre-emptively. Maybe we can infect Islam with identity politics and have them turn on each other (as we have with other groups) but who knows. Either way, just tolerating it certainly won't be popular.

Muslims kill each other more than anyone else man. Tribes and all that.

[Park Life 71]

5 minutes ago, Ken said:

Australia already does this, and so too now, as you have mentioned, the Netherlands.

Seems like basic common sense. It's not something any country wants to do but we are now living in such times that any and all reasonable remedies have to be engaged.