Vladimir Putin and Russia

[Gemmill 36005]

*Tom innocently sidles up to a Russian platoon.*

 

"Hi lads, do you get much rosewood in Russia?"

 

"Vot?" 

 

"Rosewood?" 

 

*Russians shrug and talk amongst themselves*

 

"I said..... RoseWOOD YOU LIKE ME TO SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE, IVAN?!" 

 

Then you mow them down and then do the Seven Nation Army thing. 

[Dr Gloom 20231]

52 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

It will take a lot of persuasion for them to change their stance but being the last to oppose it might finally tip them over.

 

yup, looks like they're in too. 

[Toonpack 7139]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

I was going to say that but then I remembered they always end up getting blown up in a church tower by a tank.  

With your experience you could clear mines

 

[Gemmill 36005]

49 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said:

Help on it's way at last from Wraith. 

 

 

 

"Guys, if you really want to help the people of Ukraine, the best thing you can do is smash that like button and subscribe. And don't forget to hit that bell to be notified of future episodes."

[Rayvin 4981]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

"Guys, if you really want to help the people of Ukraine, the best thing you can do is smash that like button and subscribe. And don't forget to hit that bell to be notified of future episodes."

 

It's worth holding up for ridicule but I do want to underline that this is an absolutely pathetic response to the situation. Not blaming Wraith as such, I've seen far worse than this and raising awareness at least isn't a shameless self plug, but people have been sharing images of companies or businesses trying to capitalise on this, influencers too.

 

"Me when I see the death toll in Ukraine" followed by a girl forcing herself to fake cry like it's a bit for a drama or something. People dressing up their kids in Ukraine/Russian flags and making them cuddle and asking why we can't all be like this.

 

Fuck off the lot of you. This is real, people are dying, stop trying to profit off the back of it like it's a cultural event. Same for fucking celebrities IMO. 

[scoobos 297]

59 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

So given that we have been so fiercely critical of our own war, why are we not in a position to condemn this one? 
 

That's putting words in my mouth -  I've not supported it or refused to condemn it.  In fact, I even highlighted in bold that I didn't support it.

I've spotted so much use of "Left and right" have you already labelled me in a nice little bucket already?

This Left and right stuff is deliberately concocted by the people in politics to make us think in Black and White and divide us. I'd suggest you work on trying to drop it. There is no left and right clear division this way.

If you try and see both sides - that doesn't make you a sympathiser - if you studied history as a subject - thats what its all about! No one's view is the "right one".

Edited February 26, 2022 by scoobos

[Toonpack 7139]

53 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Turkey now blocking Russian warships.

 

It is starting to feel as if Putin will have to make Russia total pariahs to get this over the line.

 

 

That’s a tricky one. They can’t legally do that, evidently the treaty governing the Bosporus states that even in time of war, vessels must be allowed to transit en route to their home ports.

 

It would be an act of war, by Turkey.

 

Nowt to stop them making it difficult though, customs inspections and the like under cover of checking for sanctions busting.

 

[Gemmill 36005]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

It's worth holding up for ridicule but I do want to underline that this is an absolutely pathetic response to the situation. Not blaming Wraith as such, I've seen far worse than this and raising awareness at least isn't a shameless self plug, but people have been sharing images of companies or businesses trying to capitalise on this, influencers too.

 

"Me when I see the death toll in Ukraine" followed by a girl forcing herself to fake cry like it's a bit for a drama or something. People dressing up their kids in Ukraine/Russian flags and making them cuddle and asking why we can't all be like this.

 

Fuck off the lot of you. This is real, people are dying, stop trying to profit off the back of it like it's a cultural event. Same for fucking celebrities IMO. 

 

Did you see that lass with the performance piece about if she'd been Putin's mother. It was worse than all the celebs singing Imagine. 

[Gemmill 36005]

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1496912057651900416?t=u13c_TWoLHOE7AnNRFv4wA&s=19

 

 

 

[scoobos 297]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

Can you imagine if it was here? I'd pick up a rifle too. I guess all of us would.

You would be surprised. Wearing a mask to save granny was too much for some of us in June 2020. I suspect many of "us" would be long gone before the invasion even happened.

[Rayvin 4981]

Just now, scoobos said:

That's putting words in my mouth -  I've not supported it or refused to condemn it.  In fact, I even highlighted in bold that I didn't support it.

 

I didn't say you were. But you are questioning the legitimacy of any of us to say anything about this at all. The general argument you're making though is that we only care because they're white, and that we didn't care when people were dying in Iraq. And what I'm saying is that plenty of us did care then, and the strength of feeling has been such that it hasn't happened since. And that this in turn means that actually, it is ok for us to be legitimately fucking outraged by this.

 

The whole argument for this whataboutery is that Russia should be able to do this because we did. I know you don't agree with that argument, I don't, so why even muddy the water? This is just wrong. It is heinous, and Russia should be condemned by literally everyone.

 

And if we invaded Iraq again tomorrow, I'd say the same damn thing. Consistency is with the people condemning this unequivocably, not with those who are saying that this is ok because of Iraq. Those people are actually destroying their own position to condemn Iraq. And for the second time, I know that's not you - but your argument touches on theirs in places and I've been fighting against the (wider, illogical) position for two days now in my own circles.

 

"How can you condemn Russia if you won't condemn Iraq?"

"I condemn both - how can you condemn Iraq if you won't condemn Russia?"

 

-silence-

[Rayvin 4981]

3 minutes ago, scoobos said:

You would be surprised. Wearing a mask to save granny was too much for some of us in June 2020. I suspect many of "us" would be long gone before the invasion even happened.

 

Where would we even run at this point tbf, don't have many bridges left to burn ourselves.

 

Hopefully we never have to find out anyway.

[Renton 18196]

I think practically everyone here condemned Iraq 2 as it happened, not afterwards. We had morons then like LM and HTL who supported it, they were both racist and gaslit though. Ukraine is something else though. A democratic European country invaded by its neighbour who have common blood and cultural ties. It is the most shocking thing to happen since WW2, in some ways the betrayal is even worse. It jas nothing at all to do with colour, race, or religion. However, the proximity of the war and the fact the bad guys are a nuclear armed superpower makes it a matter of even more concern. 

[Rayvin 4981]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

I think practically everyone here condemned Iraq 2 as it happened, not afterwards. We had morons then like LM and HTL who supported it, they were both racist and gaslit though. Ukraine is something else though. A democratic European country invaded by its neighbour who have common blood and cultural ties. It is the most shocking thing to happen since WW2, in some ways the betrayal is even worse. It jas nothing at all to do with colour, race, or religion. However, the proximity of the war and the fact the bad guys are a nuclear armed superpower makes it a matter of even more concern. 

 

I don't know why this is so difficult for some people to comprehend tbh. If Ukraine had a large immigrant population made up of different ethnicities and we were seeing images of them dead and dying, we'd somehow feel less horror because they weren't white, appears to be the suggestion - just ludicrous.

[scoobos 297]

42 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I didn't say you were. But you are questioning the legitimacy of any of us to say anything about this at all.

 

-silence-

Where did I say anything like that? that's your perception reading my post but its no way how it was meant. Try think the best of other people rather than wanting to argue eh? Nothing I said was argumentative , I was just sharing a perspective. Jaysus.

"I've been fighting this in my own circles" - shows me that you're perhaps feeling too emotive and quickly jumping to conclusions that are a reason to start labelling and putting people into little boxes of "friend and enemy". I was sharing what Putin is saying to his people, WHERE anywhere in that did I even say I agree?  Now I'm riled too, and for no reason other than being shocked as just how conditioned to argue and disagree some of us are, in a time where the whole message we are learning is that blind conflict and an inability or refusal to even entertain an opposing view - causes us all pain.
 

Edited February 26, 2022 by scoobos

[Rayvin 4981]

8 minutes ago, scoobos said:

Where did I say anything like that? that's your perception reading my post but its no way how it was meant. Try think the best of other people rather than wanting to argue eh? Nothing I said was argumentative , I was just sharing a perspective. Jaysus.

 

The line was this one:

 

"Again, maybe biased, but I think its a sad reality that killing Iraqi civilians in their cities is somewhat more palatable to NATO members, than the same in a white European city"

 

NATO isn't doing shit about this so I'm not sure really who you could be referring to if not the people of the member countries. I mean NATO didn't act in Iraq and it's not acting here, so if your argument isn't about 'the people' of those countries, who do you mean?

 

I have tried to take your argument charitably, that's why I twice made clear that some parts of my post weren't directed at what you were saying. I guess you can correct me here on my assumption if I'm wrong, and I'll apologise for not having seen your point clearly. I'm more than happy to do that.

[scoobos 297]

26 minutes ago, Renton said:

I think practically everyone here condemned Iraq 2 as it happened, not afterwards. We had morons then like LM and HTL who supported it, they were both racist and gaslit though. Ukraine is something else though. A democratic European country invaded by its neighbour who have common blood and cultural ties. It is the most shocking thing to happen since WW2, in some ways the betrayal is even worse. It jas nothing at all to do with colour, race, or religion. However, the proximity of the war and the fact the bad guys are a nuclear armed superpower makes it a matter of even more concern. 

It's by no means the worst thing to happen since WW2, many horrible things have happened. 

So many atrocities since then.

Sudan, The Kymer Rouge, Guatemalan civil war, Yugoslavia, Chechyna, Bangladesh in 71, Afghanistan (russia conflict), Syria - there's loads of things that are comparable. 

We did nothing for most of the above, too far away and not in our interests. 

[scoobos 297]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

The line was this one:

 

"Again, maybe biased, but I think its a sad reality that killing Iraqi civilians in their cities is somewhat more palatable to NATO members, than the same in a white European city"

 

NATO isn't doing shit about this so I'm not sure really who you could be referring to if not the people of the member countries. I mean NATO didn't act in Iraq and it's not acting here, so if your argument isn't about 'the people' of those countries, who do you mean?

 

I have tried to take your argument charitably, that's why I twice made clear that some parts of my post weren't directed at what you were saying. I guess you can correct me here on my assumption if I'm wrong, and I'll apologise for not having seen your point clearly. I'm more than happy to do that.

nah you just want to argue with the view you've taken of me, due to one sentance.

I'm saying that if he did start Shock and Awe , like the US and UK did (who is the main contributer of funds to NATO) then it's likely they would have more people pushing for escalation from NATO countries. I don't think that is so unreasonable tbh. 

I've edited this, but strong views of "of course we don't care more because they are white" might work for us, it does for me - but a horrible reality is that for many, they are racist - either knowingly or not and do put more value on people who look and act more like themselves. Brexit showed the level of xenophobia we have here. 

But im not having a go at anyone , nor saying no ones got a right, I'm trying to have a discussion. You just want an argument or to feel right, or at least that's how its coming across.

Edited February 26, 2022 by scoobos

[Rayvin 4981]

Right but.. I didn't disagree with that part of your post. So wait, are we saying I'm to ignore that one line in your post, which I disagreed with, and agree with the rest of your post?

 

I agree with the rest of your post. I don't agree with that single line. I don't see how this moves us any further forward since my issue was with that line and its implications, but I'm ready to be be corrected if I misinterpreted the line I have expressed disagreement with.

 

I'm calm btw. But I do also tend to be very ready to debate on things. I mean let's flip it around, do you disagree with anything I said?

[scoobos 297]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Right but.. I didn't disagree with that part of your post. So wait, are we saying I'm to ignore that one line in your post, which I disagreed with, and agree with the rest of your post?

 

I agree with the rest of your post. I don't agree with that single line. I don't see how this moves us any further forward since my issue was with that line and its implications, but I'm ready to be be corrected if I misinterpreted the line I have expressed disagreement with.

 

I'm calm btw. But I do also tend to be very ready to debate on things. I mean let's flip it around, do you disagree with anything I said?

No its putting words in my mouth and writing your percieved meaning as fact. thats what got me riled. I'm going to flounce cos I don't think anyone needs anymore conflict or division in their lives right now. Im writing this while the match is on ffs, cos I was triggered by words being put in my mouth, I hate that.

Edited February 26, 2022 by scoobos

[Rayvin 4981]

Just now, scoobos said:

No its putting words in my mouth and writing your percieved meaning as fact. thats what got me riled.

 

But I've asked several times now for you to clarify what you did mean and expressed repeatedly that I would happily apologise if I have indeed gotten you wrong. I think my assumption was fair enough but if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

 

Either way this is clearly causing consternation and while I am curious as to who you meant when you said NATO members don't care as much when the victims aren't white, I'm fine to just retract everything I said because honestly if not for the fact that I had spent all day arguing with people about that same line I doubt I would have picked you up on it at all.

 

Sorry for getting you riled, my bad.

[Renton 18196]

30 minutes ago, scoobos said:

It's by no means the worst thing to happen since WW2, many horrible things have happened. 

So many atrocities since then.

Sudan, The Kymer Rouge, Guatemalan civil war, Yugoslavia, Chechyna, Bangladesh in 71, Afghanistan (russia conflict), Syria - there's loads of things that are comparable. 

We did nothing for most of the above, too far away and not in our interests. 

 

First sentence, where is that from? I said the most shocking thing, quite different, and obviously from my pov.

Middle bit. I know, I'm not denying history.

Last sentence. Obviously, what's your point? 

[Meenzer 14166]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

"Me when I see the death toll in Ukraine" followed by a girl forcing herself to fake cry like it's a bit for a drama or something. People dressing up their kids in Ukraine/Russian flags and making them cuddle and asking why we can't all be like this.

 

Fuck off the lot of you. This is real, people are dying, stop trying to profit off the back of it like it's a cultural event. Same for fucking celebrities IMO. 

 

Ladbaby charity single incoming, nailed on. "I Love Chicken Kievs And Sausage Rolls".

[Asprilla 96]

16 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

Ladbaby charity single incoming, nailed on. "I Love Chicken Kievs And Sausage Rolls".

Chicken KYIVs darling

[Meenzer 14166]

11 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Chicken KYIVs darling

 

That's genuinely what we've called them* in this house ever since Eurovision 2005 when one of the hosts made a big point of pronouncing it "Kyyyy-yyyyiiiiiiiv" every time he said it, like he was a boxing announcer or something.  

 

 

(* not the "darling" part, I should add)