Rayvin 4964 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Am getting close to calling BINGO here. I know, I was loathe to even mention the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Dangerous though, isn't it? And not to bang on about narratives but they absolutely need to have one, a really strong one, before they oust him. The media is laying the groundwork for that if nothing else. I think it's naive to think the POTUS is omnipotent. And neither should they be. One way or another Trump will be gone imo, interesting to see if me or Parky is right. Â The media is simply reporting events. I think it's a tactical mistake for Trump to so brazenly attack them, again in contrast to Parky. They're not consciously laying groundwork though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yes. Trump needs to go, even if it requires exceptional intervention from non transparent sources. Who steps in? Is Pence better? Do they all get ousted?Ryan, Christie, Rubio, Cruz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34461 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Renty babes, what did you make of Blair's speech this morning? Like the return of Keegan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Who steps in? Is Pence better? Do they all get ousted?Ryan, Christie, Rubio, Cruz? We're in unpresidented territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 I think it's naive to think the POTUS is omnipotent. And neither should they be. One way or another Trump will be gone imo, interesting to see if me or Parky is right. Â The media is simply reporting events. I think it's a tactical mistake for Trump to so brazenly attack them, again in contrast to Parky. They're not consciously laying groundwork though. If they're not the king makers why is it dangerous to attack them. Trump supporters despise the "lame steam' media. They'll love it. Hence the questionnaire I linked to earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Renty babes, what did you make of Blair's speech this morning? Like the return of Keegan? Unlike keegan, I find him an embarrassment nowadays Tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 If they're not the king makers why is it dangerous to attack them. Trump supporters despise the "lame steam' media. They'll love it. Hence the questionnaire I linked to earlier. Eh? Stifling reporting of facts and free speech is pretty dangerous I'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I think there'll be widespread civil unrest if they oust him, all the more potent if they do so without a really good reason. He was elected as a protest against the established order, and it absolutely will look like the establishment trying to tear him down again. Â I wonder if Sanders could be persuaded to run again if they bin off the whole administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Eh? Stifling reporting of facts and free speech is pretty dangerous I'd think. I mean how does it harm Trump? It's not a mistake for him personally if he can lump in factual criticism with fake news and blur the lines between them. It helps him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I think there'll be widespread civil unrest if they oust him, all the more potent if they do so without a really good reason. He was elected as a protest against the established order, and it absolutely will look like the establishment trying to tear him down again. Â I wonder if Sanders could be persuaded to run again if they bin off the whole administration. He'll not be ousted as such. He will be removed through legal mechanisms or die of natural causes. Â Sanders: tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I mean how does it harm Trump? It's not a mistake for him personally if he can lump in factual criticism with fake news and blur the lines between them. It helps him. I didn't say the media have no influence. I'd think that anyone with a modicum of intelligence will regard attacks on the free press as dictatorial and it will lose Trump support, I hope. But maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 I didn't say the media have no influence. I'd think that anyone with a modicum of intelligence will regard attacks on the free press as dictatorial and it will lose Trump support, I hope. But maybe not. Â You and I agree on the attacks. Â As I said earlier... Â Â https://action.donaldjtrump.com/mainstream-media-accountability-survey/ Â Scary stuff. Â Participate and you legitimise the charade. Don't and the responses of his supporters will legitimise his stance. Â Expect lists of which media are acceptable and which aren't. Â What does he hope to do to resolve unfairness. Does punitive action follow, like a tyrrany? Â The last question is particularly abhorrent and completely reverses what is supposed to be the relationship between press and government in free society. Â Where we disagree is that it will lose him support. I thought you were framing it as a tactical mistake if he wants to stay in power. Â It was a pillar of his election that the "dishonest media" were lying to his voters and that they should listen to him and infowars and breitbart instead. Â Voters that agree with him about muslims and mexicans and a wall and moving jobs overseas are inclined to agree that a media class who fully supported Clinton in opposition to those questions do not represent them and are peddling misinformation. Â Â Even as the media exposed his lies with evidence, his supporters didn't care. Â Â A bit like arguing on here, evidence is irrelevant when views are entrenched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 You and I agree on the attacks. Â As I said earlier... Â Â Â Â Where we disagree is that it will lose him support. I thought you were framing it as a tactical mistake if he wants to stay in power. Â It was a pillar of his election that the "dishonest media" were lying to his voters and that they should listen to him and infowars and breitbart instead. Â Voters that agree with him about muslims and mexicans and a wall and moving jobs overseas are inclined to agree that a media class who fully supported Clinton in opposition to those questions do not represent them and are peddling misinformation. Â Â Even as the media exposed his lies with evidence, his supporters didn't care. Â Â A bit like arguing on here, evidence is irrelevant when views are entrenched Amen to that last bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17776 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Â You and I agree on the attacks. As I said earlier... Â Â Â Where we disagree is that it will lose him support. I thought you were framing it as a tactical mistake if he wants to stay in power. It was a pillar of his election that the "dishonest media" were lying to his voters and that they should listen to him and infowars and breitbart instead. Voters that agree with him about muslims and mexicans and a wall and moving jobs overseas are inclined to agree that a media class who fully supported Clinton in opposition to those questions do not represent them and are peddling misinformation. Â Even as the media exposed his lies with evidence, his supporters didn't care. Â A bit like arguing on here, evidence is irrelevant when views are entrenched It's a fair point but if you look at the demographics of his support they're obviously not all Bible bashing southern hicks or rust belt destitutes. A sizable proportion were normal middle class voters. A lot of these would have thought his electoral campaign was pure rhetoric. Now they know iys not, I'd imagine they would have concern over his attacks on the press. His approval ratings seems to indicate his cluster fuck style of presidency isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) In other news, Kid Rock is considering running for Senate. By considering I mean that republicans are trying to persuade him to do so. Edited February 17, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 *Insert Thompers quip here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Â On the coup question, I think he's on shaky ground. Â Why does he question the leaks that could oust a president in one case (Trump), but fully endorse the leaks of Snowden, Manning, Clinton emails, etc. Â All cases involve people with access to information they feel would be in the public good and making that call themselves. Â I think it just about holds water because the difference is that the Flynn leak is one that empowers the agencies that held the information and is a strategic choice to achieve their policicsal aims, whereas in all those other cases the leakers were working in opposition to the organisation they leaked from in order to ensure people knew about their wrong doing, rather than some other organisation which they opposed. Â For me , the Flynn leak is valuable and the perpetrator of it should not be crminalised any more than I think Snowden or Manning should have, but the repsonse should not be to cheer it and encourage more. Intelligence services invested with great secret powers using them to work against the government is not where a society should go. Â It seems to me that if you support this because it's important to embarrass Trump at any cost, then we lose the one thing that is a requirement of a healthy democracy, a strong opposition that reflects the opposition of society to the actions of power holders. Â If the reaction to the shambles of a campaign that Clinton and the democrats ran is not to change the democratic platform in any way, but to persist with the corporate centre right stance and just get the intelligence agencies to bring down anyone that challenges that orthodoxy, then you're fermenting further disquiet throughout the populace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just to complete the bingo, good post HF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12767 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Â :lol: I'm not taking anything that Captain Warhammer here says as worthwhile in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 :lol: I'm not taking anything that Captain Warhammer here says as worthwhile in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4220 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12456 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 :lol: I'm not taking anything that Captain Warhammer here says as worthwhile in any way :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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