Sir Eddie’s club legends v Everton - happy and glorious

[Renton 24813]

12 hours ago, thebrokendoll said:

newcastle v everton, a must win.

with all the riches on offer, the prestige of playing in the cl, the implications for recruitment and retention of players etc etc

is victory more important in this one than it was on march 16th?

I'd say so.

 

No. Fuck off man, really surprised at you for suggesting this. We've qualified for the CL numerous times. If we fuck up on Sunday we are still in the EL. Alright, we get more money, which could all be wasted on one poor signing.

Whereas winning the league cup was the first time 90% of us had experienced an actual trophy. Not only that, but it finally got the losing mentality off our back, which for me is worth far more than CL money which can never be guaranteed year to year. The value of that is intangible maybe but for me it's very real, and, given our league performances since the final, which are the only reason we even have this chance now, I'd say it's already evident in the players.

[Dr Gloom 24577]

11 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

No. Fuck off man, really surprised at you for suggesting this. We've qualified for the CL numerous times. If we fuck up on Sunday we are still in the EL. Alright, we get more money, which could all be wasted on one poor signing.

Whereas winning the league cup was the first time 90% of us had experienced an actual trophy. Not only that, but it finally got the losing mentality off our back, which for me is worth far more than CL money which can never be guaranteed year to year. The value of that is intangible maybe but for me it's very real, and, given our league performances since the final, which are the only reason we even have this chance now, I'd say it's already evident in the players.

agreed. I think it was Gemmill who said it felt like a mentality switch has been flicked. We’ve played well consistently since the cup final other than villa away, which was the third game in a week under Tindall without rotation. 
 

I’m confident that we do the job against Everton for that reason but even if we revert to type and bottle it, it has still been a season for the ages. The first cup of my lifetime meant so much more than qualifying for the CL again. 

[Christmas Tree 5589]

I mean both things are true at once. Winning a cup was brilliant, ( only because of the fact we had not done it in a lifetime), but missing out on CL will cost us dear in many ways.

 

I pretty much guarantee that most club owners, players and fans of the bigger clubs, would take the CL over a cup win every time.

 

That is how you grow everything about your club whether that’s revenue, keeping and attracting the worlds best players.

 

Hopefully we end the season with both.

[Gemmill 53684]

Bigger clubs would take CL because they've won a load of cups though. 

 

Of course winning our first trophy was more important. Doesn't mean getting into the CL isn't important, but the monkey is off our backs now. We've beaten Liverpool at Wembley to win a cup. We know we can go there and beat anyone, and more importantly the project now has a tangible benefit to point at. 

 

Cos repeatedly qualifying for and getting knocked out of the CL and never winning anything gets old pretty quick. Just ask Arsenal. 

[Tom 14503]

We should be getting to the point as a club where we shouldn’t have to choose either/or even hypothetically. 
 

However I wouldn’t trade that league cup win for the world. 

[Isegrim 10839]

16 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

I mean both things are true at once. Winning a cup was brilliant, ( only because of the fact we had not done it in a lifetime), but missing out on CL will cost us dear in many ways.

 

I pretty much guarantee that most club owners, players and fans of the bigger clubs, would take the CL over a cup win every time.

 

That is how you grow everything about your club whether that’s revenue, keeping and attracting the worlds best players.

 

Hopefully we end the season with both.

 

[spongebob toonpants 4611]

If we had lost at Wembley I doubt we would be in this position with one game to go

[aimaad22 5100]

Winning the cup and qualifying for the CL arent mutually exclusive you know.

 

The cup win was definitely more important for us though. A watershed moment. Culuturally, mentally, getting the monkey off our backs and signalling that this team has now arrived as a major threat. And most of all what it meant to the fans, we can think about the CL and revenues and the future in a different light now because we've won something. It was something that needed to happen for the club to move forward. 

[Gemmill 53684]

5 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

If we had lost at Wembley I doubt we would be in this position with one game to go

 

Be a lot harder to win a domestic cup once you've got European games to worry about too. 

[Dr Gloom 24577]

23 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

Winning the cup and qualifying for the CL arent mutually exclusive you know.

 

The cup win was definitely more important for us though. A watershed moment. Culuturally, mentally, getting the monkey off our backs and signalling that this team has now arrived as a major threat. And most of all what it meant to the fans, we can think about the CL and revenues and the future in a different light now because we've won something. It was something that needed to happen for the club to move forward. 

[Christmas Tree 5589]

1 hour ago, aimaad22 said:

 

The cup win was definitely more important for us though. A watershed moment. Culuturally, mentally, getting the monkey off our backs and signalling that this team has now arrived as a major threat. And most of all what it meant to the fans, we can think about the CL and revenues and the future in a different light now because we've won something. It was something that needed to happen for the club to move forward. 

I disagree. We haven’t signalled anything by winning the cup.Have palace now arrived as a major threat?

 

The only thing that makes us a major threat is constantly upgrading this squad we have now. If we miss CL football, we could lose players that we love and players that we would love to sign may not come.

Lose on Sunday and the gulf between where we could have been and where we will be next season will be large.

 

I agree totally that it’s brilliant for us fans to have finally won a cup, but it’s a no brainer which is more important to the clubs future. 
 

We are arriving at a massive junction with plenty of dead wood on the books and older players that have run their course. There is no guarantee that new players will work out, but that gets even harder if we are shopping on a budget.

 

We may start next season with a worse performing team, that might lead our owners to question whether Eddie has taken them as far as we can go. That may be followed by a shit manager, playing shit football and we spiral like Man U, Tottenham etc  

 

 

Not that I’m worried  

[aimaad22 5100]

11 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

I disagree. We haven’t signalled anything by winning the cup.Have palace now arrived as a major threat?

 

The only thing that makes us a major threat is constantly upgrading this squad we have now. If we miss CL football, we could lose players that we love and players that we would love to sign may not come.

Lose on Sunday and the gulf between where we could have been and where we will be next season will be large.

 

I agree totally that it’s brilliant for us fans to have finally won a cup, but it’s a no brainer which is more important to the clubs future. 
 

We are arriving at a massive junction with plenty of dead wood on the books and older players that have run their course. There is no guarantee that new players will work out, but that gets even harder if we are shopping on a budget.

 

We may start next season with a worse performing team, that might lead our owners to question whether Eddie has taken them as far as we can go. That may be followed by a shit manager, playing shit football and we spiral like Man U, Tottenham etc  

 

 

Not that I’m worried  

 

 

Mate, we've finished 4th recently, lost a final, won a final and are on the verge of finishing 4th again all within about 3 years. We also have incredibly resourceful and ambitious owners and a proper 'footballing genius' managing the team.

 

 

Palace deserve credit and its a great story but they're finishing bottom half of the table probably and their win is more comparable to Leicester's/Wigan's etc than Newcastle. Have a word with yourself. 

Edited 14 hours ago by aimaad22

[Howmanheyman 38563]

This 'would you take a cup or CL' bollocks is completely driven by pundits like Carragher, Merson etc and reserved for 'the likes of a Newcastle and a Villa' and is their way of saying you should feel lucky if you get one so don't be greedy. They wouldn't dream of saying the same about their little cabal so fuck 'em.  

[thebrokendoll 11090]

10 hours ago, Renton said:

 

No. Fuck off man, really surprised at you for suggesting this. We've qualified for the CL numerous times. If we fuck up on Sunday we are still in the EL. Alright, we get more money, which could all be wasted on one poor signing.

Whereas winning the league cup was the first time 90% of us had experienced an actual trophy. Not only that, but it finally got the losing mentality off our back, which for me is worth far more than CL money which can never be guaranteed year to year. The value of that is intangible maybe but for me it's very real, and, given our league performances since the final, which are the only reason we even have this chance now, I'd say it's already evident in the players.

 

 

calm down man, I only posed it as question for debate and it's created a canny one.

as gloom said, there wasn't and never would be 300k lining the streets for a top 4  finish, however I'd be willing to bet those that are running the finances of the club and plotting the budget for recruitment etc will be infinitely more crushed if we finish 6th than had we been beaten by liverpool, I understand that too.

sunday's game is fucking massive.

 

[Alex 38226]

Well you didn’t just pose the question, you agreed with the premise (I’d say so). IMO winning a cup was bigger for everyone at the club than CL qualification is. And that’s how it should be. Of course Sunday is a massive game but surely we’re not complacent about that trophy win already. When I say ‘we’ I mean you and CT. The latter being psychologically incapable of agreeing with the majority.
Makes you think 

[thebrokendoll 11090]

18 minutes ago, Alex said:

Well you didn’t just pose the question, you agreed with the premise (I’d say so). IMO winning a cup was bigger for everyone at the club than CL qualification is. And that’s how it should be. Of course Sunday is a massive game but surely we’re not complacent about that trophy win already. When I say ‘we’ I mean you and CT. The latter being psychologically incapable of agreeing with the majority.
Makes you think 

 

 

below is the correct answer. you mightn't fucking like it, but it's the harsh reality.

 

[Alex 38226]

No, it’s an opinion. 

[thebrokendoll 11090]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

No, it’s an opinion. 

 

no.

it's reality.

[Alex 38226]

Just now, thebrokendoll said:

 

no.

it's reality.

If you’re going down that route, that revenue is the be all and end all, then it’s like arguing getting a brand new state of the art stadium is bigger than winning our first trophy. But I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest it’s not the sole motivation for players. I’d suggest the cup final was a bigger deal. It’s been distilled somewhat in terms of importance this year because the race is so tight and it all comes down to ‘another cup final’. But the actual fact of winning things is what truly defines a club and drives future success as much as anything. We’ve been in the CL previously and it didn’t get us subsequent tangible success. Winning stuff is the only metric that really matters. 

[ewerk 34799]

8 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

I disagree. We haven’t signalled anything by winning the cup.Have palace now arrived as a major threat?

 

The only thing that makes us a major threat is constantly upgrading this squad we have now. If we miss CL football, we could lose players that we love and players that we would love to sign may not come.

Lose on Sunday and the gulf between where we could have been and where we will be next season will be large.

 

I agree totally that it’s brilliant for us fans to have finally won a cup, but it’s a no brainer which is more important to the clubs future. 
 

We are arriving at a massive junction with plenty of dead wood on the books and older players that have run their course. There is no guarantee that new players will work out, but that gets even harder if we are shopping on a budget.

 

We may start next season with a worse performing team, that might lead our owners to question whether Eddie has taken them as far as we can go. That may be followed by a shit manager, playing shit football and we spiral like Man U, Tottenham etc  

 

 

Not that I’m worried  

 

[thebrokendoll 11090]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

If you’re going down that route, that revenue is the be all and end all, then it’s like arguing getting a brand new state of the art stadium is bigger than winning our first trophy. But I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest it’s not the sole motivation for players. I’d suggest the cup final was a bigger deal. It’s been distilled somewhat in terms of importance this year because the race is so tight and it all comes down to ‘another cup final’. But the actual fact of winning things is what truly defines a club and drives future success as much as anything. We’ve been in the CL previously and it didn’t get us subsequent tangible success. Winning stuff is the only metric that really matters. 

 

sustained success is absolutely linked to finances, that is an unequivocal fact.

I'm not trying to deny any fucker or myself the romance of winning the cup man, but if you want to see more and even bigger shinier ones then you need to come to terms with that, however distasteful you might find it.

[Alex 38226]

10 minutes ago, thebrokendoll said:

 

sustained success is absolutely linked to finances, that is an unequivocal fact.

I'm not trying to deny any fucker or myself the romance of winning the cup man, but if you want to see more and even bigger shinier ones then you need to come to terms with that, however distasteful you might find it.

The argument is whether an individual cup win is bigger than a one off CL qualification. That’s literally the debate you started. You can’t unequivocally say one is more of a catalyst for subsequent success. If you could, our previous CL campaigns would’ve lead to trophies sooner. It’s not clear cut. We all know finances are the main driver long term. Saying the game v Everton is bigger than the cup final is 20/20 revisionism purely because of the way the season has panned out though. I’d also say the club was not 100% banking on CL qualification this season in its long term planning. That and, on the playing side, Howe was even prepared to prioritise winning the league cup  at certain points in the season 

Edited 5 hours ago by Alex

[RobinRobin 13160]

[Alex 38226]

It’s not a fair fight. He’s six pints of Aspall’s deep at this point 

[thebrokendoll 11090]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

The argument is whether an individual cup win is bigger than a one off CL qualification. That’s literally the debate you started. You can’t unequivocally say one is more of a catalyst for subsequent success. If you could, our previous CL campaigns would’ve lead to trophies sooner. It’s not clear cut. We all know finances are the main driver long term. Saying the game v Everton is bigger than the cup final is 20/20 revisionism purely because of the way the season has panned out though. I’d also say the club was not 100% banking on CL qualification this season in its long term planning. That and, on the playing side, Howe was even prepared to prioritise winning the league cup over the league when we reached final. 

 

I was nearly 7 when we won the fairs cup.

I was 62 when we won this fucker.

I'd like them to come round at a more rapid rate than once every 55 years, or I won't ever see another one.

we've been overwhelmingly shite for the entire time ive been supporting this club, I'd desperately like to see us dominate the domestic league and even europe before I'm no longer around.

I believe the possibility of this happening hinges on the riches and prestige that comes with regular CL participation and not a domestic trophy every 70 years, hence why I think sunday's game is enormous

 

@Gemmill...

 

hoy a chart up man, say for the last 25 years or so showing who's won trophys/link to wages/income, prove your worth....