Reaching Europe

[Shearergol 0]

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

Funny really - I can't remember you ever naming a manager who was willing to come to the club and show more passion are care for the club when Souness was manager. The words "It's not my job to pick the manager" were used weren't they?

 

What money has FS put down by the way? For millions of pounds a year, I'm pretty certain most people would do it....

[LeazesMag 0]

......

Comparing the progress under John Hall and the Shepherd is stupid. Its like saying Bobby Robson was a shit manager on the basis he didn't match Keegan.

 

NOW. At this point in time, or under Shepherds time as chairman, we have been the 5th most successful and best run club on and off the field. This is not failure, and once again, only those who have not experienced true failure or mediocrity would be dumb enough to say that it is.

 

yet you are more than happy to compare Shepherd to the pre Hall days? How does that work exactly?

 

 

 

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

124670[/snapback]

 

And exactly how much of this money Shepherd has put down was his own? Shepherd spends the clubs money, thats what buys players its not out of his own pocket.

124677[/snapback]

 

So 5th best in the last decade, Buying England players, qualifying regularly for europe, filling the ground every week and appointing trophy winning managers is failure/shit ? Yes or no.

 

No one is saying he spends his own money. He spends the clubs money. Shit directors don't spend or speculate with the clubs money. Do you understand this or not ?

[LeazesMag 0]

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

Funny really - I can't remember you ever naming a manager who was willing to come to the club and show more passion are care for the club when Souness was manager. The words "It's not my job to pick the manager" were used weren't they?

 

What money has FS put down by the way? For millions of pounds a year, I'm pretty certain most people would do it....

124680[/snapback]

 

You didn't ask...because YOU thought Souness would "get there" ....

 

The rest is a complete load of crap and you know it.

 

Anyway, you can answer the question I've asked PP...after all, its you thats saying he;s shite, yet you can't put out any performance facts to back it up. BTW what did you think of my proof that we were the 5th most successful club by virtue of average league position that you claimed wasn't the case ?

[LeazesMag 0]

Who was it who had the avatar of that cartoon bloke typing til all he had left were bloody stumps.  That's exactly how I picture Leazes when he's on a Shepherd rant.  Someone post it up if they've got it.

124660[/snapback]

 

 

I picture him as an Abu-Hamza type figure. Full of rage and hatred against cockneys, Souness, Luque etc.

124672[/snapback]

 

I reckon you have more in common with Hamza than me Omardriveldhino, you both know fuck all about Newcastle and you both shit in a hole in the ground

[Shearergol 0]

......

Comparing the progress under John Hall and the Shepherd is stupid. Its like saying Bobby Robson was a shit manager on the basis he didn't match Keegan.

 

NOW. At this point in time, or under Shepherds time as chairman, we have been the 5th most successful and best run club on and off the field. This is not failure, and once again, only those who have not experienced true failure or mediocrity would be dumb enough to say that it is.

 

yet you are more than happy to compare Shepherd to the pre Hall days? How does that work exactly?

 

 

 

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

124670[/snapback]

 

And exactly how much of this money Shepherd has put down was his own? Shepherd spends the clubs money, thats what buys players its not out of his own pocket.

124677[/snapback]

 

So 5th best in the last decade, Buying England players, qualifying regularly for europe, filling the ground every week and appointing trophy winning managers is failure/shit ? Yes or no.

 

No one is saying he spends his own money. He spends the clubs money. Shit directors don't spend or speculate with the clubs money. Do you understand this or not ?

124684[/snapback]

 

So he's able to spend the money which was made a possibility by Hall. Wouldn't most chairmen do that?

[LeazesMag 0]

stop it leazesmag. you're murdering me 

124678[/snapback]

 

I see you realised you were wrong.

 

You're a scream mate keep it up. You can answer my question to PP as well if you like, although its a common thing not to answer questions when you can;'t so I'm not holding my breath

[LeazesMag 0]

......

Comparing the progress under John Hall and the Shepherd is stupid. Its like saying Bobby Robson was a shit manager on the basis he didn't match Keegan.

 

NOW. At this point in time, or under Shepherds time as chairman, we have been the 5th most successful and best run club on and off the field. This is not failure, and once again, only those who have not experienced true failure or mediocrity would be dumb enough to say that it is.

 

yet you are more than happy to compare Shepherd to the pre Hall days? How does that work exactly?

 

 

 

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

124670[/snapback]

 

And exactly how much of this money Shepherd has put down was his own? Shepherd spends the clubs money, thats what buys players its not out of his own pocket.

124677[/snapback]

 

So 5th best in the last decade, Buying England players, qualifying regularly for europe, filling the ground every week and appointing trophy winning managers is failure/shit ? Yes or no.

 

No one is saying he spends his own money. He spends the clubs money. Shit directors don't spend or speculate with the clubs money. Do you understand this or not ?

124684[/snapback]

 

So he's able to spend the money which was made a possibility by Hall. Wouldn't most chairmen do that?

124688[/snapback]

 

No.

[Shearergol 0]

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

Funny really - I can't remember you ever naming a manager who was willing to come to the club and show more passion are care for the club when Souness was manager. The words "It's not my job to pick the manager" were used weren't they?

 

What money has FS put down by the way? For millions of pounds a year, I'm pretty certain most people would do it....

124680[/snapback]

 

You didn't ask...because YOU thought Souness would "get there" ....

 

The rest is a complete load of crap and you know it.

 

Anyway, you can answer the question I've asked PP...after all, its you thats saying he;s shite, yet you can't put out any performance facts to back it up. BTW what did you think of my proof that we were the 5th most successful club by virtue of average league position that you claimed wasn't the case ?

124686[/snapback]

 

Find where I said he was shite. I didn't. I said he's not exempt from criticism, like you think he is. I also never claimed Souness would get there. I was more against him than anyone to be fair. I just said that it was a stupid time to sack him after 5 months, but less stupid than employing him in the first place.

 

By the way, can you show me any performance facts which show Doug Ellis is shite to back that up? Villa were joint 5th weren't they? Is he a good chairman?

[Shearergol 0]

......

Comparing the progress under John Hall and the Shepherd is stupid. Its like saying Bobby Robson was a shit manager on the basis he didn't match Keegan.

 

NOW. At this point in time, or under Shepherds time as chairman, we have been the 5th most successful and best run club on and off the field. This is not failure, and once again, only those who have not experienced true failure or mediocrity would be dumb enough to say that it is.

 

yet you are more than happy to compare Shepherd to the pre Hall days? How does that work exactly?

 

 

 

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

124670[/snapback]

 

And exactly how much of this money Shepherd has put down was his own? Shepherd spends the clubs money, thats what buys players its not out of his own pocket.

124677[/snapback]

 

So 5th best in the last decade, Buying England players, qualifying regularly for europe, filling the ground every week and appointing trophy winning managers is failure/shit ? Yes or no.

 

No one is saying he spends his own money. He spends the clubs money. Shit directors don't spend or speculate with the clubs money. Do you understand this or not ?

124684[/snapback]

 

So he's able to spend the money which was made a possibility by Hall. Wouldn't most chairmen do that?

124688[/snapback]

 

No.

124690[/snapback]

 

On what evidence?

[peasepud 59]

The thing is LM you argue points that cannot be proven, the statement that most chairmen wouldnt spend the money Sir John developed cannot be quantified.

 

Personally I still think that we could do a lot, lot worse than Shepherd however that doesnt make him great. He writes the cheques (as you rightly point out) when it matters however hes also cost us serious amounts of cash in the sacking of managers, Dalglish, Robson and now Souness have cost us millions because Shepherd appointed them and then got rid (albeit in most cases quite rightly).

 

Im still a little lost though how a staunch hater of Souness such as yourself can ignore the fact that Shepherd paid a fortune in compensation to a club which were desperate to get rid of a shite manager only to then pay another fortune out getting rid himself.

[luckypierre 0]

Leazes, can I have some answers to my questions please?

 

You've lost all credibility tbh. The fact you gave the likes of Gemmill so much grief for supporting Souness for so long yet you still wont criticise Shepherd for not getting rid of him sooner. . You keep repeating the words 'financial implications' but wont expand or give any substance to your point, why did it make more sense financially to get rid in February and not in the Summer?. You dismissed anything printed about Bellamy as a club smear campaign but still refuse to acknowledge that Shepherd was the one behind it. . You criticise some of the contracts and players we've signed for huge transfer fees but point blank refuse to accept Shepherds prominent role in them.

 

I've yet to see anyone one with the extreme viewpoint you keep assigning to them. I suppose it makes it easier to argue against. What people have done is point out where he's gone wrong and what mistakes he's made. YOU refuse to even see that he's made them. If you were to say that for all his faults and all his mistakes you still think the positives outweigh the negatives pretty much everyone would acknowledge that view and debate it. You dont do that though , you refuse to acknowledge that the man makes any mistakes.

Edited April 20, 2006 by luckypierre

[LeazesMag 0]

......

Comparing the progress under John Hall and the Shepherd is stupid. Its like saying Bobby Robson was a shit manager on the basis he didn't match Keegan.

 

NOW. At this point in time, or under Shepherds time as chairman, we have been the 5th most successful and best run club on and off the field. This is not failure, and once again, only those who have not experienced true failure or mediocrity would be dumb enough to say that it is.

 

yet you are more than happy to compare Shepherd to the pre Hall days? How does that work exactly?

 

 

 

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

124670[/snapback]

 

And exactly how much of this money Shepherd has put down was his own? Shepherd spends the clubs money, thats what buys players its not out of his own pocket.

124677[/snapback]

 

So 5th best in the last decade, Buying England players, qualifying regularly for europe, filling the ground every week and appointing trophy winning managers is failure/shit ? Yes or no.

 

No one is saying he spends his own money. He spends the clubs money. Shit directors don't spend or speculate with the clubs money. Do you understand this or not ?

124684[/snapback]

 

So he's able to spend the money which was made a possibility by Hall. Wouldn't most chairmen do that?

124688[/snapback]

 

No.

124690[/snapback]

 

On what evidence?

124692[/snapback]

 

on the evidence that they don't, nor do they accumulate or spend anywhere near what we do !

 

Including Doug Ellis [who BTW took over a club in the 2nd biggest city in the country, that had just won the European Cup and now can't fill a 44, 000 stadium, rarely get into europe, doesn't buy England players, can't appoint trophy winning managers.

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, can I have some answers to my questions please?

 

You've lost all credibility tbh. The fact you gave the likes of Gemmill so much grief for supporting Souness for so long yet you still wont criticise Shepherd for not getting rid of him sooner. . You keep repeating the words 'financial implications' but wont expand or give any substance to your point, why did it make more sense financially to get rid in February and not in the Summer?. You dismissed anything printed about Bellamy as a club smear campaign but still refuse to acknowledge that Shepherd was the one behind it. . You criticise some of the contracts and players we've signed for huge transfer fees but point blank refuse to accept Shepherds prominent role in them.

 

I've yet to see anyone one with the extreme viewpoint you keep assigning to them. I suppose it makes it easier to argue against. What people have done is point out where he's gone wrong and what mistakes he's made. YOU refuse to even see that he's made them. If you were to say that for all his faults and all his mistakes you still think the positives outweigh the negatives pretty much everyone would acknowledge that view and debate it. You dont do that though , you refuse to acknowledge that the man makes any mistakes.

124696[/snapback]

 

Whatever questions you've asked, if I haven't answered them, I;ve lost them waiting for my own replies and not just from you.

 

I've stated how I see it, which is factual, and not just a moronic "fred is shit" stance. I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes, nor denying that anyone is infallible from making them. I am pointing out our clubs standing in the past decade, pure and simple, and showing how the ambition the club has shown is more than the vast majority of big city clubs, which is why we are in the position of being 5th best in the country. This is not failure or shit. Only someone who doesn;t understand the meaning of the word would stupidly claim it is. At the end of the day a full ground every week says differently. If you don't like it, stop going, like 30,000 did when we were shit, mediocre or worse. The club doesn't have to spend money and try to be ambitious, this has been shown by other clubs in the present and our own directors in the past. They do it because they have the ambition and are striving to be successful.

 

If you think Shepherd isn't good enough, or isn't bothered enough, there should be plenty of people prepared to put up and show that they care more and can do better. But there isn't thats a fact.

[Shearergol 0]

......

Comparing the progress under John Hall and the Shepherd is stupid. Its like saying Bobby Robson was a shit manager on the basis he didn't match Keegan.

 

NOW. At this point in time, or under Shepherds time as chairman, we have been the 5th most successful and best run club on and off the field. This is not failure, and once again, only those who have not experienced true failure or mediocrity would be dumb enough to say that it is.

 

yet you are more than happy to compare Shepherd to the pre Hall days? How does that work exactly?

 

 

 

Once again also, NO ONE HAS YET SAID WHO THE PERSON IS WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE CLUB TO PUT THEIR MONEY DOWN AND GUARANTEE MORE AMBITION.

The answer being quite simply that there is no one, and there isn't likely to be either.

 

124670[/snapback]

 

And exactly how much of this money Shepherd has put down was his own? Shepherd spends the clubs money, thats what buys players its not out of his own pocket.

124677[/snapback]

 

So 5th best in the last decade, Buying England players, qualifying regularly for europe, filling the ground every week and appointing trophy winning managers is failure/shit ? Yes or no.

 

No one is saying he spends his own money. He spends the clubs money. Shit directors don't spend or speculate with the clubs money. Do you understand this or not ?

124684[/snapback]

 

So he's able to spend the money which was made a possibility by Hall. Wouldn't most chairmen do that?

124688[/snapback]

 

No.

124690[/snapback]

 

On what evidence?

124692[/snapback]

 

on the evidence that they don't, nor do they accumulate or spend anywhere near what we do !

 

Including Doug Ellis [who BTW took over a club in the 2nd biggest city in the country, that had just won the European Cup and now can't fill a 44, 000 stadium, rarely get into europe, doesn't buy England players, can't appoint trophy winning managers.

124699[/snapback]

 

Jesus wept.

 

Ignoring my other post?

[Shearergol 0]

Leazes, can I have some answers to my questions please?

 

You've lost all credibility tbh. The fact you gave the likes of Gemmill so much grief for supporting Souness for so long yet you still wont criticise Shepherd for not getting rid of him sooner. . You keep repeating the words 'financial implications' but wont expand or give any substance to your point, why did it make more sense financially to get rid in February and not in the Summer?. You dismissed anything printed about Bellamy as a club smear campaign but still refuse to acknowledge that Shepherd was the one behind it. . You criticise some of the contracts and players we've signed for huge transfer fees but point blank refuse to accept Shepherds prominent role in them.

 

I've yet to see anyone one with the extreme viewpoint you keep assigning to them. I suppose it makes it easier to argue against. What people have done is point out where he's gone wrong and what mistakes he's made. YOU refuse to even see that he's made them. If you were to say that for all his faults and all his mistakes you still think the positives outweigh the negatives pretty much everyone would acknowledge that view and debate it. You dont do that though , you refuse to acknowledge that the man makes any mistakes.

124696[/snapback]

 

Whatever questions you've asked, if I haven't answered them, I;ve lost them waiting for my own replies and not just from you.

 

I've stated how I see it, which is factual, and not just a moronic "fred is shit" stance. I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes, nor denying that anyone is infallible from making them. I am pointing out our clubs standing in the past decade, pure and simple, and showing how the ambition the club has shown is more than the vast majority of big city clubs, which is why we are in the position of being 5th best in the country. This is not failure or shit. Only someone who doesn;t understand the meaning of the word would stupidly claim it is. At the end of the day a full ground every week says differently. If you don't like it, stop going, like 30,000 did when we were shit, mediocre or worse. The club doesn't have to spend money and try to be ambitious, this has been shown by other clubs in the present and our own directors in the past. They do it because they have the ambition and are striving to be successful.

 

If you think Shepherd isn't good enough, or isn't bothered enough, there should be plenty of people prepared to put up and show that they care more and can do better. But there isn't thats a fact.

124701[/snapback]

 

There was nobody better than Souness either.

[Craig 6321]

There can only be one logical explanation.....

 

LM IS Freddy Shepherd

 

(and if it is true, you're an even bigger fool for moaning about the bloke you didn't sack soon enough!)

[geordieshandy 0]

It's the first time I've ventured near this debate, and probably the last, but here goes.

 

Hall took over this club when he saw there was an opportunity to make something huge. He saw the money that Sky was about attract to into the field and realised he could turn a club that was trying it's hardest to enter the third tier of the English league into a brand. That's what the running of the club has to be seen as, the running of a company. SJH saw the best way to do this was to get the club playing attractive football, that way he could get the team to be one of the best supported in the country. Everyone's second team and that. The team managed to ride the crest of the wave set by that and reach the top (nearly). This was though, only the beginning of the life cycle of the brand. Everything that went before 1990 is completely different and not hardly even the same sport. This also happened as the town itself was setting up into a more affluent area. Also being a citycentre team has helped keeping the crowd since it is easily accessible. The crowd is also sustained by the fans believing what they shout at the teams down the road, and the media, billing them as the greatest.

 

So the product is maturing and Shepherd takes over the reigns. This is now one of the hardest times and is very difficult to compare to when Sir John burst the team on to the stage (global due to the Sky television audiences). Now it's all about keeping the team going forward - difficult when you're near the top - and prevention of catasrophe - see Leeds. The choice of managers brought in relate to this. First a previously successful manager, and then someone Shepherd saw as being able to bring back that attractive football that won the team so many supporters (read investment). The hiring of SBR was a masterstroke seeing as in combined a talismanic and well loved leader and managed to bring back some success. Souness was probably the only time Shepherd really made a snap decision and that was to try and bring back some credibility to the brand he was pushing on the now global market. The bad press some of the players brought to the team has seen his company's stock fall, along with of course lack of year on year success.

 

Last summer was probably the lowest ebb for FS, seeing the apathy that filled his stadium, that's why the money got shelled out on the likes of Owen and Luque. Again a canny marketing move - see how many turned up last August.

 

 

Shepherd can't that bad a business man, look at his other interests, but the publicised stuff about his brothers warehouse etc doesn't really help matters.

 

Never Again.

[luckypierre 0]

Whatever questions you've asked, if I haven't answered them, I;ve lost them waiting for my own replies and not just from you.

 

I've stated how I see it, which is factual, and not just a moronic "fred is shit" stance. I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes, nor denying that anyone is infallible from making them. I am pointing out our clubs standing in the past decade, pure and simple, and showing how the ambition the club has shown is more than the vast majority of big city clubs, which is why we are in the position of being 5th best in the country. This is not failure or shit. Only someone who doesn;t understand the meaning of the word would stupidly claim it is. At the end of the day a full ground every week says differently. If you don't like it, stop going, like 30,000 did when we were shit, mediocre or worse. The club doesn't have to spend money and try to be ambitious, this has been shown by other clubs in the present and our own directors in the past. They do it because they have the ambition and are striving to be successful.

 

If you think Shepherd isn't good enough, or isn't bothered enough, there should be plenty of people prepared to put up and show that they care more and can do better. But there isn't thats a fact.

124701[/snapback]

 

 

How convenient. It was only yesterday Leazes, and I only repeated them a few times, only to see you fail to answer a single one but yet somehow argue against a view I never gave. Strange that

 

I dont owe you an answer on anything. The only thing I said about Shepherd for as long as I can remember is he made a mistake in not getting rid of Souness earlier. You , after everything you've said for the past year and all the shit you've continously thrown back in peoples faces, take offense to that and say I dont understand the financial implications and try and lay some pathetic Champ man insult on me. So yet again I'll ask the question...

 

Why did it make more financial sense to get rid of Souness in February and not in the previous Summer?

 

If it didnt make financial sense will you admit that Shepherd made a mistake in not sacking Souness before February?

 

You've stated many times how you see it, but its far from factual. You keep assigning achievements of his predecessor to him for a start.

 

If I dont like it stop going to games, what sort of shite is that? Did you stop going to games pre SJH because you werent happy?

 

The club is mismanaged Leazes. We spend millions because we have millions. Are you going to tell me we dont waste millions though Leazes? Is Shepherd in part not responsible? Could you spend it better? You cant just simply say everythings great compared to our rivals because we spend a fortune. How does our turnover compare to those clubs (again in place before FS took over)? How does the value on that expenditure compare to those clubs? The shareholders do very well out of NUFC should we clebrate the fact that they dont keep more money back, and dont take out more millions than they do? Dont do FS a disservice, he knows exactly what he's doing, he's a businessman afterall. Lets be thankfull they're just greedy twats rather than really greedy twats.

 

Another easy question for you..

 

Did Shepherd make a mistake in refusing to pay the stated combined price of 15.5 million for Anelka and Boa Morte but yet spend the combined fee of 26 million for Owen and Luque? In your opinion was this money spent wisely?

 

Theres no point in celebrating the fact we can spend millions, we've been doing that longer than Shepherd was chairman. Just spending millions wont get us anywhere.

 

I dont think we've got a realistic chance of ever winning the league, doesnt stop me wanting it? How about you Leazes? Do you want us to win the League?

 

Cant I want a better chairman too? One that isnt a public embarassement, one that has a longterm plan, one that doesnt make snap reactionary decisions, one that doesnt keep repeating the same mistakes, one that isnt interested, first and foremost, in using the club as a pension fund for him, his mates and his family. Surely I can want that cant I?

[peasepud 59]

hmmm gone quiet,

 

obviously its easier to duck those questions on another board while slagging off this entire board in one sentence than it is to come on and answer your post there pierre.

[LeazesMag 0]

Whatever questions you've asked, if I haven't answered them, I;ve lost them waiting for my own replies and not just from you.

 

I've stated how I see it, which is factual, and not just a moronic "fred is shit" stance. I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes, nor denying that anyone is infallible from making them. I am pointing out our clubs standing in the past decade, pure and simple, and showing how the ambition the club has shown is more than the vast majority of big city clubs, which is why we are in the position of being 5th best in the country. This is not failure or shit. Only someone who doesn;t understand the meaning of the word would stupidly claim it is. At the end of the day a full ground every week says differently. If you don't like it, stop going, like 30,000 did when we were shit, mediocre or worse. The club doesn't have to spend money and try to be ambitious, this has been shown by other clubs in the present and our own directors in the past. They do it because they have the ambition and are striving to be successful.

 

If you think Shepherd isn't good enough, or isn't bothered enough, there should be plenty of people prepared to put up and show that they care more and can do better. But there isn't thats a fact.

124701[/snapback]

 

 

How convenient. It was only yesterday Leazes, and I only repeated them a few times, only to see you fail to answer a single one but yet somehow argue against a view I never gave. Strange that

 

I dont owe you an answer on anything. The only thing I said about Shepherd for as long as I can remember is he made a mistake in not getting rid of Souness earlier. You , after everything you've said for the past year and all the shit you've continously thrown back in peoples faces, take offense to that and say I dont understand the financial implications and try and lay some pathetic Champ man insult on me. So yet again I'll ask the question...

 

Why did it make more financial sense to get rid of Souness in February and not in the previous Summer?

 

If it didnt make financial sense will you admit that Shepherd made a mistake in not sacking Souness before February?

 

You've stated many times how you see it, but its far from factual. You keep assigning achievements of his predecessor to him for a start.

 

If I dont like it stop going to games, what sort of shite is that? Did you stop going to games pre SJH because you werent happy?

 

The club is mismanaged Leazes. We spend millions because we have millions. Are you going to tell me we dont waste millions though Leazes? Is Shepherd in part not responsible? Could you spend it better? You cant just simply say everythings great compared to our rivals because we spend a fortune. How does our turnover compare to those clubs (again in place before FS took over)? How does the value on that expenditure compare to those clubs? The shareholders do very well out of NUFC should we clebrate the fact that they dont keep more money back, and dont take out more millions than they do? Dont do FS a disservice, he knows exactly what he's doing, he's a businessman afterall. Lets be thankfull they're just greedy twats rather than really greedy twats.

 

Another easy question for you..

 

Did Shepherd make a mistake in refusing to pay the stated combined price of 15.5 million for Anelka and Boa Morte but yet spend the combined fee of 26 million for Owen and Luque? In your opinion was this money spent wisely?

 

Theres no point in celebrating the fact we can spend millions, we've been doing that longer than Shepherd was chairman. Just spending millions wont get us anywhere.

 

I dont think we've got a realistic chance of ever winning the league, doesnt stop me wanting it? How about you Leazes? Do you want us to win the League?

 

Cant I want a better chairman too? One that isnt a public embarassement, one that has a longterm plan, one that doesnt make snap reactionary decisions, one that doesnt keep repeating the same mistakes, one that isnt interested, first and foremost, in using the club as a pension fund for him, his mates and his family. Surely I can want that cant I?

124714[/snapback]

 

Champ manager? who are you, the only person I said that to was Dan ?

 

Having said that I wanted Souness sacked from day 1, every day until he was, the question of it being sensible to sack him, or when the best time to do it, is a complete no brainer. All I have done is correct people who think for some reason that sacking a manager at the beginning of the season is bad timing, yet then say they were happy that Gullit was sacked and replaced by Robson. Also underlined by the fact that ManU appointed Ferguson and Arsenal appointed Wenger during the season. Football clubs have alwasy sacked managers during the season. The only relevant thing is getting the right man.

 

Meaning of course, the timing is irrelevant, its the choice of manager which is important. Whenever I say this, nobody answers. It simply the same old moronic "fred is shit".

 

People who said Souness should be sacked, then not sacked, then sacked, then not sacked, and Fred is to blame when we lose matches, then not in credit when we win matches, are no brainers. Does anyone seriously think that Shepherd [and Hall jnr the major shareholder] knew they hadn't made a mistake from about October onwards, but couldn't sack him until the financial package and implications had been sorted out and arranged ?

When i ask this, all you get is the same response...should have sacked him earlier...apart from those who say he should have stayed. Another no brainer.

 

People who were in favour of selling Bellamy and Robert, and buying Luque, Owen etc etc simply cannot complain about the chairman giving the manager the money rather than sacking him in the summer, when they supported these changes.

 

No, I have never stopped going to games, even when we had a shit chairman, sold our best players and had 15,000 crowds. Do you think I would say what I say if I had done otherwise ? Many did though, and they went because we had a shit chairman, club and no ambition. Simple fact is, the ground is full nowadays because that situation is completely the opposite. Like it or not, its a fact. If there was nothing to make it worthwhile, 30k fans would disappear.

 

We have spent millions because we have millions. We have millions because we have CHOSEN to be ambitious, keep our best players, speculate on other top players and chase european qualification and trophies. We don't have to do that. There is no obligation. Every big transfer we make is a risk. We could have directors that do not have the bottle or ambition to do this ? Do you understand this ? Other clubs do not have it. We didn't ourselves for decades. The result is decay, relegation, smaller crowds, more decay, lesser crowds, more apathy. Do you understand this ?

 

As for Shepherd choosing players, its another no brainer. You are another that simply does not understand the chairman does not choose the players that are bought and sold. The manager is employed to do this. The chairman [of all clubs] then decides if he can afford the player or not. I think we should have bought Boa Morte rather than Luque, but it was Souness' decision to buy Luque or we would not have bought Luque. I simply can't understand how you can't see this.

 

I would not go anywhere near Anelka. I would personally have bought Owen, but like Luque we were pushed into paying inflated prices due to Souness's stupidity in stripping the squad. And before you say anything, I think a poor chairman would stop a manager doing what he wants with his squad, and a good chairman gives him his trust.

 

The notion I don't want to win the league is absurd. I've supported this club through thick and thin for 42 years, of course I want to win the league. There is a difference between wanting to do it and thinking we have a right to win trophies though, and accepting the rough with the smooth and realising people make mistakes and there are only 2 winners every season. Whereas you simply see us as having not won the league and blaming people, I see the board anyway as having run the club and done as much as they can to win the league, by appointing managers who had won leagues and trophies before and given them the money and freedom to repeat the success. What else do you think they can do, when there is only one manager a season who does it?

 

At the end of the day, we come back to the fact that we are one of the elite clubs, the 5th best over the last decade. You can talk about 5 year plans and strategies as much as you like, but accusing the club of not trying to build stability and plan for the future is simply untrue. We had a manager for 5 years, and during that time increased the stadium capacity and built new training and youth academies. This is business planning wouldn;t you agree.

 

On the field, there is no such thing as a 5 year plan. Its a load of crap. Football is short term, if the manager wins games, he stays for as long as he's winning, if he loses games he;s out its as simple as that.

 

NOW. Will you or someone else tell me if you think Shepherd is so hopeless and doesn;t give a toss for the club, who is on the outside or who do you think would be more committed to the club, and guarantee more success, football and business know how and guarantee to be better than being the 5th best in the country. Because if you can, I'll go with you, I just think its a very tall order.

 

Anyone who responds with a stupid one line reply or avoidance of the issues here will be treated with the disdain it deserves

Edited April 20, 2006 by LeazesMag

[Gemmill 35090]

Who was it who had the avatar of that cartoon bloke typing til all he had left were bloody stumps.  That's exactly how I picture Leazes when he's on a Shepherd rant.  Someone post it up if they've got it.

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I picture him as an Abu-Hamza type figure. Full of rage and hatred against cockneys, Souness, Luque etc.

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I reckon you have more in common with Hamza than me Omardriveldhino, you both know fuck all about Newcastle and you both shit in a hole in the ground

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I've had some insults on here before LM, but never have I been accused of shitting in a hole in the ground.

 

You must be knackered though - it's like spinning plates for you, trying to defend Shepherd on here and NO. Give it up man.

[JawD 31]

I aint gonna waffle on, but I am gonna stick my face through the fat ladies hole By that I mean to get pies chucked at my face, not be in some sick porn I actually agree with a few of the things LM states above. I know the directors skim the cream off the club, but at the same time it would be oh so easy for them to take more, or to hide more of the profits made and make less money available to players. We have a fantastic stadium, though Im sure with Freddies contacts he could get someone to knock down leazes terrace but thats another story. We spent what, £48M on players last summer, why? because as a club we always "try" to back the manager. As an appointment, rushed into appointment or not, I think they had to give GS a chance.

 

Where I think FS has went wrong:

 

Listening to his manager about the "worth" of a player and paying the asking price. boumsong £8M is the main one. Luque is slightly different, he was seen to be a top player. the Owen deal, we'd have lost if we were the same as Liverpool, we had to bid high to make it impossible for Liverpool to bid. The Owen deal will be worth it if he stays longterm and we win something, so too soon to say.

 

Also, I kinda agree that there may not be a best time to get rid of manager. some times make sense, like why wait until the transfer window closes when they can make no real changes etc. This said, Roeder has shown that to be a good manager, you need to manage. Not just throw money at something. Our mistake with bobby was getting rid without having a plan following. I find that impossible to comprihend. That is a mistake by the board.

 

There is the saying be careful what you wish for. With FS we have cash for the manager, and a strong club off the pitch. It could easily go one of two ways if the board changed. They could retain more profit, cream more themselves, ot simply blow money and waste it on numerous things that hold no worth to the clubs assetts (Leeds anyone?).

 

We look to Liverpool, or I do with envy. They have spent less, came from a similar standing (when we were both hovering around 3-5th) and yet they have won all sorts since then. Why? Why them and not us? Down to the manager. We've had the money, we've even maybe had the players at some point. Yes the directors appoint the manager, but I'd hold my hands up and say at the time I thought KD was a good appointment, or that I was happy when RG was appointed. How wrong I was, utterly. GS I think was the only manager in recent times when I have thought "what on earth are the board playing at? who in their right mind would have made that appointment?".

 

Ok, so I have waffled on but basically I think the club could be in a hell of a worse position than it is, and I also think we have previous managers to blame for alot more so than the board. Yes they (the board) take more than their fair share out, and yes I just wish FS would keep out of the limelight (for he makes me cringe when on tv). But, as I say, be careful what you wish for.

[peasepud 59]

Funnily enough though LM I also generally agree with you however the posting style and assumption that when people dont agree they are clueless and glory hunters does my head in.

 

When I say generally though I mean "generally agree" there are many things in the life of Shepherd that make me want to twat him, hes a greasy, dodgy bloke with a big fat gob that makes us look stupid at times and as for his mate Douggy that man needs to go, he brings nothing to this club but he takes plenty. Thats the bit that confuses me most about your posts Leazes I dont think Ive ever seen you say a bad word against him when he is a leach on this club.

 

So to summarise, I agree that we're up there and although I havent seen anything to confirm it I believe the 5th best bit but for me thats still not good enough, as a fan I wont be able to feel complete until I see that silverware, feel the elation at a final whistle knowing we've finally done it. I believe that Shepherd is doing all he can to keep us up there but I dont believe thats good enough. I dont think he has that final last spark to make some amazing business decision that will make us world beaters.

 

His replacement? no idea but whoever it is would need to be in it for the long haul and with pockets as deep as Abramovich's, yes it requires a full take over, full purchase of the club and turning us into a new Russian state but if thats what it takes then so be it.

[Optimistic Nut 9]

I would love it if Spurs finish 5th & we come 6th. After all the shit we've been through this year, and Spurs being the media darlings going for the Champions League, it's very possible we'll both end up just a few points apart and both in the UEFA Cup.

[luckypierre 0]

So Shepherd did make a mistake in not getting rid of Souness earlier then. Regardless of when you guess he'd made his mind up we can both be in agreement that it should have been done before, thanks.

 

So Shepherd has nothing to do with transfer fees? Hes the one who negotites them Leazes not the manager. He'll take the managers advice along with other peoples but its his responsibility. He's the one who decided that 6.5 mill for Boa Morte was too much and 9 mill for Luque was a fair price. Souness will have said I want Boa Morte, its then the chairman who'll negotiate what he feels is a fair price , not the manager! Shepherd is also the one who'll negotiate players contracts. He's the one who sat down with Dyers agent and decided 80K a week was a fair contract, not Souness! Souness will have no doubt said he's an important first team player, we need to keep him etc but the actual negotiation of the contract is down to Shepherd. He obviously backs his managers but why are we continuously taken for a ride, because Shepherds a shit negotiator perhaps?

 

Ive never said Luque was a Shepherd signing. Again you're assigning someone elses view onto me just for the sake of arguing. Theres just no logic in the decsion to turn down the chance to sign two players for a combined 15 mill yet a few weeks later sign two comaprable players for a combined 25 mill. Just a bad business decision. Especailly when that money could have been put to better use elsewhere.

 

He has to take criticism for when hes sacked managers. To say otherwise is idiotic. It doesnt matter if the next manager is a Robson or a Gullit, a success or a failure. It would be better to put the new manager in place before the season starts and with the transfer budget at his disposal. No matter how Robson did the timing off his appointment was bad. Not one of the sackings was because of the results at the beginning of the season, not one. To make that mistake once is a mistake, to keep repeating it?

 

The stats you keep posting are combined points in a season, it doesnt makes us fifth most succesful does it. Shepherds league finishes as (full seasons) chairman are ,apart from 3 years under Robson, mediocre to poor. Also when repeating that figure you keep mentioning cups and europe whereas that 5th best figure is purely combined league points. Its also combined since pemiership began so also includes those under Halls reign where on average we have done a lot lot better.

 

The revenue of this club and the ability to pay large transfer fees was in place before Shepherd. Continuing this is not some great achievement.

 

Football and business is about planning. The teams who do not have any plan and are only ever focused on the short term are the ones who continuously fail, sound like anyone?

 

I'll give you a bone, back to my original question of what has Shepherd done that has moved the club from the postion it was in when he took over? The Academy! Shepherd can take credit for that, and you know what its a sign of long term planning too.

 

Congratulations on missing the point about winning the league Leazes, I thought it was simple enough, guess not

 

Like I've said before. No one who you argue against has ever just said Shepherds shit or a failure, but for some reason your keep assigning this extreme viewpoint on people to argue against. What people do is recognise his failings and mistakes. For some reason only known to yourself you feel the need to jump inwith the same old crap. You cant recognise that he's made a mistake EVER. Even when not to do so goes against everything you've ever said you still wont say it.

 

I dont have to name someone better, some mysterious benefactor to be able to point out where he's fucked up. Why should I?

 

I want a better chairman than Shepherd. It might be unrealistic, especailly seeing as he's the major shareholder but doesnt stop me wanting it. Just like winning the league. Like Ive sad many times before maybe its better to have someone in DOF role. Let Shepherd focus completely on the business side where no doubt he has a lot to offer.

Edited April 21, 2006 by luckypierre