Rayvin

Actually, this might help save Europe. If 10,000s of jobs leave the UK and go to Europe, their unemployment will go down. We'll be fucked, but we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

I thought Crabb's speech was pretty good but I hope he doesn't win as he seems to be intent on ending access to the single market.

That is hilarious

Apparently 1000 jobs are going to go as Visa move out of London as they need to be in the EU. Is anyone keeping track of how many jobs this is costing yet? That must be about 5000 confirmed already that we know about, and it's been a matter of days.

At the same time Renton, it's now very clear that Corbyn was not, by any stretch, the only problem in the Labour party. Their utter failure in the years gone by made him inevitable.

He's right that the members have to decide this. Feels like the PLP are about to get their noses bloodied...

Beat you to it, CT.

Decisive vote though. 172 to 40.

Is that the best Labour has left?

I meant the issue I was referring to. My point was that the EU superstate was definitely something people (maybe you?) had raised as a concern.

That was definitely one of the cited issues I don't think it's going to fail though - closer political and economic union will see it through. If Britain collapses, they'll point to us as the warning of what may happen to those who leave. If we don't collapse it may struggle more, I accept. This is one of the reasons why I don't think we'll get off easy in negotiations. They'll do just enough to make sure things don't look rosy here.

Ah the EU superstate that Britain was preventing until we left? That superstate is looking a whole lot more fucking likely at the moment.

This tweet demonstrates both that Boris Johnson and Leave had no fucking idea what they were offering to the public, and worse, that we are indeed going to leave the Single Market. Johnson cannot become PM.

Wasn't aware you'd predicted the break-up of the UK, CT?

Rupert Murdoch has called the British vote to leave the EU “wonderful” and described Donald Trump a “very able man” in comments made in London on Tuesday. In his first public comments since last week’s historic referendum vote, the owner of several newspapers including the Times, the Sun and the Wall Street Journal said that leaving the EU was like a “prison break ... we’re out” and suggested that a UK/US trade deal wouldn’t take long to negotiate.

If the Chilcot thing goes down the way that guy feels it might, with Corbyn making no excuses, Labour won't win a snap election. New Labour really is on the ropes here.

Very possible. We'll see in two weeks, I imagine. But if this guy is right, I think it settles the issue concerning who tore Labour apart. Blair.

Yeah saw that before... This is England, 2016.

Wow... Corbyn is about to take the whole Labour party hostage. The man has stones after all. Not that this is a good thing...

Nice bit of analysis. Wasn't aware of that. As you say, Sturgeon will take it for all it's worth though.

He'll love that of course. He's building himself a legacy as a 'liberator', in his mind. The Oliver Cromwell of our time is how he'll see himself. I think the GE needs to come in a few months, when people are clear that leaving the EU has become ridiculous. Hopefully no one will push the button until then, which means we need the Tories to elect someone like Hunt, who won't do it. I can't believe some of the posts I'm making in support of Tories now, but it really is that ridiculous a situation.

Good luck to them - hope they get what they want.

This country should never hold a referendum again. What should ultimately happen is that Parliament should suck it up, led by Boris, and come forward to say "actually this is fucking stupid and the choice we've allowed you to make will harm everyone in the country - we've looked at it, which we hadn't done beforehand, and it makes absolutely no sense - so in the interests of the public good, we're not going to implement it". UKIP would be up in arms, but the majority of the public would support that statement if it had cross party backing and featured several prominent Leave campaigners.

Ouch.

Ultimately, Renton and I probably aren't blaming him because we're hoping against hope that someone with an ounce of common sense will come along and see that this is an utter farce. Also, Cameron activating it doesn't help our cause here, as he's gone and finished either way. Him making it a poisoned chalice is the best chance we have. If I was neutral, I would still say that it is reasonable to expect the Leave campaign to have had a plan, but that it was also reasonable to expect Cameron to have had one. As it turns out, he did. To resign.