Rayvin

Has he now reached the point of actively willing the club to fail?

I'm sure Fish put something down, he'll have seen this coming a mile off.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/breathtaking-surge-of-tory-tactical-votes-to-save-nick-clegg-in-hallam-poll If ever there was proof that our system is broken beyond all repair, this is it. Clegg is having his seat saved by tactical Tory voting without which he'd be ousted.

He didn't even get the top grade...

I'm glad at least some of us were savvy enough to bet on this. A few weeks back I just couldn't see it myself, but obviously over time it's become apparent just how incompetent Carver is, and just how naive I was to believe that 35 points would probably be enough.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with you on this. Labour still hasn't sorted itself out for the post-Blair era, and I'm not at all convinced by it in its current form. Still don't know if that warrants risking the Tories for another 5 years, but I take the point.

FFS, this situation is ridiculous in general. We're going to be landed with the Tories because the SNP have killed Labour's chances in an attempt to liberate themselves from...the Tories. I can't work out if I think it's Labour's fault, the SNP's fault, or if the Tories have just played a fucking blinder and manipulated both sides. Sadly, I think it's probably the latter.

I don't think it's healthy to have minimum expectations on anything to do with this club...

Likely, given that the highest remunerated director (presumaby Charnely) is on £106k pa. Compared to the divisional average of around £1m+

Embrace it now guys, it'll make it easier when it happens...

I say this all the time but honestly, even Labour seem to have given up defending themselves on this. It's like the debate has moved on now and everyone has just 'agreed' that this ridiculous retelling of history that we have from the Tories is the way it was. As you say, millions of idiots.

If we were going to get him either way, it may as well be now.

You're right - but darkest before the dawn and all that. The club will come back from all of this one day.

Ashley will be feeling the heat here, which is about the only consolation I can take from this. His strategy is about to be proven as an utter failure. We were right all along, not that it means anything. If he doesn't sack Carver, who has now lost the dressing room and likely the respect of most of the players, then we're down. Carver was the worst decision he's made this season. Possibly the worst he's made at this club altogether. I would have said Kinnear was, but Kinnear didn't lose 8 games in a row.

That headline is bang on though.

I'm amazed that he isn't gone. He's lost 8 games in a row, the dressing room, all confidence from the fans and any self-respect he might have had. Why is he still here? The truth is, even he won't think that we can get out of this with him at the helm. He'll now know he's a terrible manager. Why is he doing this to us?

I hate this football club.

"I've told Williamson not to play long balls, but he just keeps doing it" Grade A manager material, right there.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/30/newcastle-united-steve-mcclaren-derby-county- Carver apparently went down to Derby to lose 4-0 to McClaren and 'definitely not talk about the job' that he's still 'in pole position for', the walking pillock of a man... Not even intelligent enough to work out that he's being stitched up.

I'm still enjoying that nickname.

So, my point is that we're going to be cutting it sufficiently fine that the optimism is neither here nor there. This campaign has been an utter embarrassment and I expect exactly the same next year (following on from the same last year), which means that I'm relatively indifferent about the exact point in time Ashley finally manages to relegate us through incompetence. This year we've been as bad as I've ever seen us, so why not. Just to clarify - this is not a scenario that is worrying me. I have only thinly veiled contempt now.

Your optimism is admirable. But it doesn't change the fact that Carver is capable of relegating us, and given more time, almost certainly would. Over a full season, we would be down. I actually think if there were another 10 games to run we'd be down. We may well get away with this, but it'll only be because there were insufficient games remaining for the other teams. Not because we're better.

That just sounds gross...

The Guardian has reported the same figures, mind. In truth, I didn't think that there were any standout winners in that. I'm certainly not convinced that Cameron is someone I want to be running the country for another 5 years though. EDIT - although I remain unconvinced by Miliband too, even if his party is less evil than the Tories, in a general sense.

But actually, it puts him in a really strong position - the SNP can't effect any damaging influence and the Tories can be used whenever they're actually useful.