Renton

Kwarteng still doubling down. It's all these cunts know how to do until the inevitable U-turn which is too late after the damage is done.

Poor Dave on here. Turns around and.....

well, you know what we say, that's quite a range.

It's all academic anyway. We aren't gettin PR any time soon and I dislike Starmer more with each passing day. But I'll vote for him anyway, because the system he supports doesn't give me a choice.

You'll need to explain that to me. They'd be the largest party but would have to form a coalition with others, and I don't recall the right wing vote getting above 50% in total. The Lib Dems again maybe, but they would have toned down the lunacy of the last 3 years.

As long as we're better than Belarus that's good enough for Starmer.

Agreed, but that's small print. You could introduce mechanisms to sort out this kind of stuff, but with the overall purpose of making sure governments stick to the spirit of their manifesto.

That's where I fundamentally disagre. Most people in this country are fairly moderate, liberal, and progressive. That's a fact. But somehow we now have a government led by Truss which is to the right of Thatcher and bonkers to boot. They are enacting policies which are literally the opposite to their manifesto of the last 12 years. How can you say people deserve this?

Don't know. We can be the first. Make manifesto promises legally enforcable. Why not?

The large majority of people in this country live in safe seats and their vote quite literally makes no difference at all. And once a party gets a majority, on a minority of votes, they can do what they please. I'm not represented at any level of decison making.

It won't be winners take all under PR, plural or not. It will be leading through consensus with compromises made. Rayvin and yourself also touch on another facet here, about the media and accountability. I don't see how the Brexit referendum was democratic when the campaigners could lie with impunity and had no accountability for their actions. That's a piss poor form of democracy if its democracy at all.

Is it Fish? Is it really?

Unelected second house populated by clerics and stooges. Hereditary president. Am I or any of my views represented? No, they're not. FPtP is a shame designed to give the illusion of democracy and to restrict power to two parties. Quasi-democracy at best.

What democracy?

I searched denpressure on that forum and sure enough, he was there with you arguing with him. Not that long either.

It's cos of their lead in the polls they should back it imo. There will never be a better time. But the answer is because of Starmer. He doesn't want to upset the status quo. The irony is, the bigger the labour win, the more secure his position is and the more PR will be relegated to the bottom of the drawer. However, the issue is gaining traction with Joe Public. People like Burnham need to keep the pressure on. For me personally, its by far the most important issue now, more important than Europe or the NHS.

You're still entertaining him on the SMB aren't you?

Talking of astronomy, Jupiter is the closest it's been to the Earth for 59 years. My mum says she distinctly remembers talking to my dad and uncle (his brother), who were both into astronomy, about the approach then, and my Dad speculating what the future would be like on the next close approach and whether he'd be alive. He missed it but my uncle, who is a decade younger, is still around. I'll remind him of this story. My mum says the 6 decades have gone like the blink of an eye. The vastness of space and time is truly humbling.

I fucking love that clip of old Musso like. Love Italians in general, they are such a ridiculous people. In a good way. Fortunately they are genuinely shit at fighting so if they kick off again we'll be okay as long as they don't get their Jorman mates involved, reet @Isegrim?

I used Aer Lingus on my first long haul flight to New York years ago in 1992. Could smoke in the rear compartment in those days. The plane landed in Shannon for immigration iirc. Anyway, it was a fucking ramshackle 747 that looked like it was going to fall to bits. On the return flight whilst taxiing for take off at Shannon the rear door exploded just behind me and there was an emergency evacuation. Had a T shirt on and ripped my arm with friction burns. Was told by air accident investigators afterwards that had that happened in midair (I.e. 10 minutes later) anyone in the vicinity not buckled up would have been sucked out. Nobody buckled up in those days. Been scared of flying ever since because of the oirish bastards. I reckon they owe me thousands for psychological trauma! Happy flight wykikitoon! [I'm assuming they've upgraded their planes]

If rates go anywhere near as high as the markets are indicating there will be a huge housing crash which will be the very end of the tory party and will ultimately help you. Always look on the bright side!

Halifax, Virgin, a few others are removing all fixed rates from the market.

Reeves questioned today whether they would even turn up for the next election. I firmly believe they won't, they know they're gone and are just clinging on to power and personal enrichment now for the remianing months/years. The only way they are in power in 2025 is if they perform an actual coup and put a dictator in place. I don't see that happening - yet. And aye, I would prefer Thatcher any day of the week. Incredible as I truly detested her.

Well done, pig fuckers.