David Kelly

It's no surprise this happing in a game that Bennett refereed. The guy is a clown of the highest order and without doubt the worst referee in the premier league.

That's quite a range!

I like how all Trabelsi had to do to get a team was turn up

After Gemmil's love of Souness it comes as no surprise that he has some strange oppinions on players as well

That is kinda where I am on him as well. I understand your point (although I would say commanding his box is more of a problem than distribution) but I still struggle to think of more than a couple of keepers who are better than him in the world right now (Cassilas is much more prone to error than him and I don't particularly rate Riena although he's definitely solid) and as such I would have to say he's world class. He's not as good as some players from the past like Banks, Lashin (spellings probably miles off), Shilton, Southall or Schmeicel (spelling again) but they aren't playing any more. Anyway the point is he is the best player we have with a consistency to match his skill that hasn't been found in a Newcastle player since Shearer was in his prime or Bobby Lee and as such it's best for the team that he play. Also clearly being guaranteed his game hasn't harmed him in the past so there's no reason to think it will make him rest on his laurels now. What SA needs to do is make sure he drops players who aren't performing rather than worrying about ones who 99% of the time will. Yashin That's him, tbf I was half asleep when I was typing that last night. I'm quite suprised it makes any sort of sense reading it back.

make sure your ordering the dvd and not the vcd! Aye your right, the DVD seems to be a fiver. What's the delivery charge?

Am I right in thinking that site is charging £3 for that or am I reading it wrong? And would this play on my multi region player?

Is this out on DVD? I love Oldboy and Lady Vengence and I'm looking forward to Mr Vengence too.

An Ipod is the best thing I've ever bought. It's helped me listen to more music for free than I ever thought possible. The problem is mine now keeps crashing and somehow stops registering the files I have on there as music so the songs won't play and I have to keep formatting it and putting 40 gig of music back on. And it seems to take a lot longer to add music than it used to. I think it's somehow a battery problem (everything that knacks up on them seems to be this).

Unfinished Sympathy

Leonard Cohen - Everybody Knows

It's cetainly possible to play without a big target man up front if you remember back one of the best strike partnerships we have ever had was Cole and Beardsley and clearly neither of them could be considered a target man. But you did have the likes of Lee, Clark, Sellars, Fox, Beresford, Watson and Beardsley himself playing fantastic balls into the box that players could move on to. I don't believe we have the passing quality we had back then to make it work. Big man little man is here to stay for the forseeable future for me.

That is kinda where I am on him as well. I understand your point (although I would say commanding his box is more of a problem than distribution) but I still struggle to think of more than a couple of keepers who are better than him in the world right now (Cassilas is much more prone to error than him and I don't particularly rate Riena although he's definitely solid) and as such I would have to say he's world class. He's not as good as some players from the past like Banks, Lashin (spellings probably miles off), Shilton, Southall or Schmeicel (spelling again) but they aren't playing any more. Anyway the point is he is the best player we have with a consistency to match his skill that hasn't been found in a Newcastle player since Shearer was in his prime or Bobby Lee and as such it's best for the team that he play. Also clearly being guaranteed his game hasn't harmed him in the past so there's no reason to think it will make him rest on his laurels now. What SA needs to do is make sure he drops players who aren't performing rather than worrying about ones who 99% of the time will.

Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Cech is certainly a better keeper than Given and I haven't seen much of Buffon for a while but I would say he was a better keeper a few years ago. But beyond those two I can't really think of much better. Look at all of the major footballing nations (England, Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Argentina, Brazil and so on) and non of them have a keeper to match Given. So in that respect I would have to class him as world class even if he's not the very best in the world. And as Craig says, his importance has become even more apparent when we became a much poorer side!

Definitely done nowt wrong and unfortunately should still be dropped tbh. Damned right - you play the best man for the role and that is undoubtedly Given. Just because Harper has done nothing wrong doesn't mean he is entitled to keep playing until he does - that's fucking ludicrous!!! TBF even if Harper doesn't make the mistake we're suggesting he will, he still won't play to the standard of Given. I've seen Harper concede goals before that weren't his fault but that I was pretty certain Given would have stopped. This is the difference for me. It's not that Harper is some sort of comedy keeper like Paul Robinson, it's just that he can't quite pull of the saves that the very best keepers can. And since we have a keeper who can make those saves it makes complete sense to play him. You can feel sorry for Harper when he gets dropped but letting that cloud your decision is just as bad as playing players simply because they are the bigger name and gets you nowhere in football. In some respects yes but, apart from a short time under Gullit's reign, Harper has never been the first choice keeper at SJP and has had countless opportunities to move on but has chosen to remain as our backup keeper. Very true, Harper clearly hasn't been that upset by being Given's understudy or he would have been off long before now. I'm sure if he didn't get in the team ahead of an underperforming Given that would change but as you say apart from very short periods that just hasn't happened.

Definitely done nowt wrong and unfortunately should still be dropped tbh. Damned right - you play the best man for the role and that is undoubtedly Given. Just because Harper has done nothing wrong doesn't mean he is entitled to keep playing until he does - that's fucking ludicrous!!! TBF even if Harper doesn't make the mistake we're suggesting he will, he still won't play to the standard of Given. I've seen Harper concede goals before that weren't his fault but that I was pretty certain Given would have stopped. This is the difference for me. It's not that Harper is some sort of comedy keeper like Paul Robinson, it's just that he can't quite pull of the saves that the very best keepers can. And since we have a keeper who can make those saves it makes complete sense to play him. You can feel sorry for Harper when he gets dropped but letting that cloud your decision is just as bad as playing players simply because they are the bigger name and gets you nowhere in football.

Completely missed the point there but never mind. Do you really think that Ameobi would ever be able to play to a standard high enough to be better than Owen (assuming that Owen's injury hasn't fucked him which would appear to be the case)? I would say that no matter how well he was playing we would always be in a better state with a fit Owen in the team. If form suggested otherwise then I would be more than happy to keep Shola in the team but the evidence suggests this will never be the case (and this isn't me knocking Shola btw). Do you think that Fergie, Wenger, Benitez or Mourinho would ever not bring Keane, Viera, Gerrard or Lampard back into the team when they were fit no matter how well someone has deputised for them? Maybe for a game or two but never in the long term and that's one of the reasons why these teams are successful. They have players of the calibre that they consistently play well and therefor deserve to be in the team. The shame for Harper is that being a keeper if you make one mistake you cost the team points so you can't afford to rotate and this mean that keepers get dropped no matter whether they deserve it or not. Playing in goal I've experienced this myslef and it pissed me off no end but I can't argue that I wasn't replaced for the good of the team.

If a better player is there to replace him yes. Would you stick with Shola if he was on form in place of Owen or Pattison in place of Barton? Of course you wouldn't because no matter how well those players are playing they have never shown in their careers that they can play consistently better than the players you would replace them with. Harper is not as good as Given plain and simple. Just because he's playing to a high standard of his own ability it does mean he's a better player. If Emre was in the team playing well I wouldn't suggest dropping him for a fit again Geremi and the same goes for N'Zogbia and Duff. When you have two competing players who can both deliver the same standards I wouldn't advocate dropping one who is playing well just because another who was playing well before he got injured returns. That would set a bid example and show favouritism. This is what Roeder did with Duff and pissed off Charlie to the point that he alsmost left the club which would have been a crying shame even if Duff has been performing. But as I said before, Harper and Given are not equal, Harper cannot consistently perform to the same standard that Given can. Unfortunate but true. Like when Saha kept van Nistelrooy out the first side and won the Carling Cup?.. Fergie had fallen out with RVN and decided to get shot of him which was why he played Saha instead. It wasn't done on the basis that Saha had kept his place because he was playing well. Whatever was said at the time, what's transpired since has clearly proved that.

If a better player is there to replace him yes. Would you stick with Shola if he was on form in place of Owen or Pattison in place of Barton? Of course you wouldn't because no matter how well those players are playing they have never shown in their careers that they can play consistently better than the players you would replace them with. Harper is not as good as Given plain and simple. Just because he's playing to a high standard of his own ability it does mean he's a better player. If Emre was in the team playing well I wouldn't suggest dropping him for a fit again Geremi and the same goes for N'Zogbia and Duff. When you have two competing players who can both deliver the same standards I wouldn't advocate dropping one who is playing well just because another who was playing well before he got injured returns. That would set a bid example and show favouritism. This is what Roeder did with Duff and pissed off Charlie to the point that he alsmost left the club which would have been a crying shame even if Duff has been performing. But as I said before, Harper and Given are not equal, Harper cannot consistently perform to the same standard that Given can. Unfortunate but true.

What he said. Harper isn't in there because Shey performed badly so why not put him back in? Because Harper hasn't played badly. But he hasn't played better than Given either.

If Given had been dropped due to poor displays then I would consider the shirt up for grabs. As it is though Given has never made more than an odd few mistakes since he arrived here years ago and never had a run of bad games. There are no signs that his standards are dropping so therefor he should start. Harper is a good keeper but unfortunately for him not as good as Given and let's face it he knows this or he would have left a long time ago to try and prove it. You play your best team in order to win games and Given is our best keeper not on the basis that he used to be great (the way Shearer ended up) or that he produces odd flashes of brilliance but then disappears for games on end (like Dyer) but on the basis that he consistently top class. I don't believe it sends out any bad signals to put someone like that back in the team when they are fully fit.

I've been impressed with Geremi too. I admit I wasn't particularly excited about his signing having never been a fan but I've liked what I have seen so far. His passing is superior to anyone else we've had in midfield for god knows how long and he's got a good engine to get about the pitch and stop the opposition. I'm not keen on the partnership of him and Butt in the middle though as I don't think either of them offer enough drive into the oppostions defensive third. I think their pairing has been more to do with other missing parts of the team though than Allardyce thinking they are the way to go. I would expect that we will more than likely see Geremi and Barton at home and Faye added to them in a 4-3-3 for away games. I think that might well be a very nice balance of ability and graft in the middle of the park. I think Butt is still doing a very decent job but I just expect SA like any other manager to want to play his signings so I think his games might be a bit more limited if everyone is fit.

It's good to see that he seems to have his head sorted out now and it's paying dividends on the pitch. I'm looking forward to seeing him and Enrique lining up together down the left and really tormenting some defences at home for a change.

Was really impressed with the team on Saturday tbh. Granted the opposition weren't up to much but the back four looked as solid as I have ever seen (I think Taylor will find it very difficult to get back in the centre ahead of Roz and Cacapa who are both looking top class so far). We created plenty of chances which on another day would have seen us score at least three. I think it's important to stick with 4-4-2 at home as it offers much more when we need to force the attacking play. My only worries are where Smith actually fits into the team and a central two of Geremi and Butt is a bit too much like Butt and Parker and not attacking enough especially at home against teams like Wigan. Although I Barton will change that quite a bit when he's fit.